trade center commemorative silver coin

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Postby communist trees on Mon Sep 27, 2004 7:57 am

Major Tom wrote:
communist trees wrote: The entire phone grid was out, so he couldn't call. That was scary.


too bad no one had a cell phone


Um, yeah, about that. If you remember on the news, it was virtually impossible to make a call on any form of phone in either New York or D.C. Too many people calling over burdened all the phone services, and effectively shut it down. Cell phones weren't helpin' anyone then.
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Postby reasonablymad on Mon Sep 27, 2004 8:07 am

you think two new buildings would be a sign of our strength? built with technology to resist plane crashes? how about we replace ALL of our skyscrapers with brand new ones, incorporating that technology? we can stamp out more of these coins to pay for it all! and then when our kids say, "I thought the twin towers got blowed up." we can answer, "they did, jimmy, but we put them right back, because we can! huzzah! america wins again!"

let us perpetuate the myth of our invincibility FOREVER!!!
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Postby Him on Mon Sep 27, 2004 8:10 am

Those towers would be haunted.
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Postby reasonablymad on Mon Sep 27, 2004 8:12 am

or rather... not forever.

we've got an entire country to do business all over... let's not quibble about real eastate... can't we leave a quiet little space that reminds us that not everything we do is perfect and safe?
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Postby Agamemnon on Mon Sep 27, 2004 8:13 am

reasonablymad wrote:you think two new buildings would be a sign of our strength? built with technology to resist plane crashes? how about we replace ALL of our skyscrapers with brand new ones, incorporating that technology? we can stamp out more of these coins to pay for it all! and then when our kids say, "I thought the twin towers got blowed up." we can answer, "they did, jimmy, but we put them right back, because we can! huzzah! america wins again!"

let us perpetuate the myth of our invincibility FOREVER!!!


Someone damages my car. They show pride by pointing to the damage. I fix my car so that there is no evidence of the damage. What are they going to point at now?

Bad analogy, but it shows my point.
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Postby Azrael on Mon Sep 27, 2004 8:14 am

Because everything we do IS perfect and safe? /endfalsenaivety
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Postby Desire on Mon Sep 27, 2004 8:16 am

Re-building them, or building something just as big/tall to show the world it didn't effect us, is a pile of macho crap... in my opinion.

I don't know, frankly, I don't care about posturing or ego building in this case.
Cause you know what? It did affect us. It destroyed thousands of lives. And will continue to hurt people for many, many years to come.

Yeah, we'll show the world. We'll show them that we can still build big building. woohoo.

So what that we will be symbolically burying all those that died there. Eventually, people will forget. It'll be just another tower touching the sky in a city full of them.

Personally, I don't want people to forget.



Like I said... a stretch of flatness in a city of spires. A slab of metal to symbolize the metal building that once sttod there... and burned and fell. The names of the dead, so they can be spoken and remembered by future generations. A flame to symbolize the strength of the American people and their ability to pull together in a crisis, also a flame as a reminder to be vigilant. And a tear to remember all the sorrow of that day.



But they will build a new tower and it will become just another part of it and in time, 9/11 will become just a date again, and it will all be just another footnote in our history.
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Postby Agamemnon on Mon Sep 27, 2004 8:16 am

If we don't put something there that's useful in the way that what was there was, are we not giving in to the terrorists in some way?
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Postby reasonablymad on Mon Sep 27, 2004 8:20 am

Agamemnon wrote:
Bad analogy, but it shows my point.


really bad analogy, doesn't show your point at all...

no one died.
it wasn't politically motivated.
the scale of the attack means something.
your car doesn't symbolize american power the way the twin towers did and the new york skyline does.
various parts of our economy weren't plunged into chaotic fits when your car got damaged.

etc.
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Postby reasonablymad on Mon Sep 27, 2004 8:20 am

Agamemnon wrote:If we don't put something there that's useful in the way that what was there was, are we not giving in to the terrorists in some way?


no.
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Postby Him on Mon Sep 27, 2004 8:22 am

[i]Your point is bad. This is another thing entirely. The damage done by the the attack is in no way lessend by two new towers. The fact that the towers are missing is not what is important here, since so much more then the towers got lost in the attack. Was it 3000 people that died? I don
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Postby Agamemnon on Mon Sep 27, 2004 8:22 am

reasonablymad wrote:
Agamemnon wrote:
Bad analogy, but it shows my point.


really bad analogy, doesn't show your point at all...

no one died.
it wasn't politically motivated.
the scale of the attack means something.
your car doesn't symbolize american power the way the twin towers did and the new york skyline does.
various parts of our economy weren't plunged into chaotic fits when your car got damaged.

etc.


And those reasons you just listed are all reasons on why I want the Towers back.
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Postby Desire on Mon Sep 27, 2004 8:23 am

I'm sorry, but this isn't about fixing a car. This was lives lost. And not just the people who died.

No we're not giving into the terrorists. Go to NYC. There are lots and lots of tall buildings. We don't need to build another one just to show we can.


I'd rather put something there to show the world that we don't intend on forgetting.



[added]Re-build the towers, by all means... just do it somewhere else.[/added]
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Postby Agamemnon on Mon Sep 27, 2004 8:25 am

I feel like that just putting in a memorial is disrespectful too. These people gave their lives for no other reason than these terrorists wanted to hit something symbolic. They wanted to take that symbol away from us. I feel it disrespectfull to let them take that symbol away.
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Postby Desire on Mon Sep 27, 2004 8:27 am

Like I said. Rebuild it in another location in the city. It's just another tall building in a city full of them.
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Postby Him on Mon Sep 27, 2004 8:29 am

Agamemnon wrote:If we don't put something there that's useful in the way that what was there was, are we not giving in to the terrorists in some way?

[i]You mean their strike at what could symbolically be called "the heart" of capitalism? I know, there were people here in sweden who refused to hold a minute in silence in honour of the victims of the attack simply because they thought america had had it coming. What could inspire such thought? Maybe it is because they "hate your freedom" and democracy? Maybe that
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Postby reasonablymad on Mon Sep 27, 2004 8:30 am

Agamemnon wrote:And those reasons you just listed are all reasons on why I want the Towers back.


yes, well... we've stated our cases. so, for the record: I think yours is damaging to our collective national psyche in the long run. I think it will taunt the terrorists. I think it does a disservice to those who died that day. I think it is posturing and naive and everything else that makes people hate us. I think that it is representative of the mindset that will want to build a forcefield around the country next time something happens... and of the mindset that nothing is ever going to happen again. I think it lacks any sort of compassion, understanding, or taste.
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Postby Agamemnon on Mon Sep 27, 2004 8:31 am

[Edit]
Desire wrote:Like I said. Rebuild it in another location in the city. It's just another tall building in a city full of them.

[/edit]

And that's exactly what I'm trying to say. These weren't just tall buildings. They were the World Trade Center. It was not just a symbol of the US. It was a symbol for the entire world. There were citizens from all over the world who worked there. I feel it somehow lacking to put something there that is less than what was there before. It was a strong enough symbol to be the target of these terrorists. I'm not saying let's create another target, because let's face it, whatever we do will be a target.

I saw the Twin Towers as a powerful icon. I feel that to not replace them would be disrespectful to those who lost their lives there.
Last edited by Agamemnon on Mon Sep 27, 2004 8:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Him on Mon Sep 27, 2004 8:32 am

Agamemnon wrote:I feel like that just putting in a memorial is disrespectful too. These people gave their lives for no other reason than these terrorists wanted to hit something symbolic. They wanted to take that symbol away from us. I feel it disrespectfull to let them take that symbol away.

Just what do the World Trade Centers symbolize for you? Freedom?
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Postby reasonablymad on Mon Sep 27, 2004 8:33 am

Agamemnon wrote:I feel like that just putting in a memorial is disrespectful too. These people gave their lives for no other reason than these terrorists wanted to hit something symbolic. They wanted to take that symbol away from us. I feel it disrespectfull to let them take that symbol away.


those people did not "give" their lives. I am sure they'd gladly have their lives back, if they could.

I had another thought... since you think we should replace the towers, what if we could CLONE EVERYONE WHO DIED THERE? wouldn't that make a statement! can't kill us, nope. just as good as new!
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Postby Him on Mon Sep 27, 2004 8:35 am

That is not possible.
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Postby reasonablymad on Mon Sep 27, 2004 8:36 am

good!
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Postby Agamemnon on Mon Sep 27, 2004 8:37 am

You are right. Those lives were taken. Though some were given in trying to rescue those still trapped.

The Buildings were the target. The people were in the way.

But you are right, too. We won't change each other's mind.
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Postby Agamemnon on Mon Sep 27, 2004 8:39 am

Him wrote:
Agamemnon wrote:If we don't put something there that's useful in the way that what was there was, are we not giving in to the terrorists in some way?

[i]You mean their strike at what could symbolically be called "the heart" of capitalism? I know, there were people here in sweden who refused to hold a minute in silence in honour of the victims of the attack simply because they thought america had had it coming. What could inspire such thought? Maybe it is because they "hate your freedom" and democracy? Maybe that
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Postby Him on Mon Sep 27, 2004 8:40 am

3000 hungry children leave us per hour. 10 000 civilian iraqis were killed in the war. Are your lifes worth more then theirs?
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