TWSK Round 37 - Overhauling the System - Read 1st post

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TWSK Round 37 - Overhauling the System - Read 1st post

Postby Theonewhoisodd on Thu Nov 24, 2011 7:49 am

THUNTWORLD SERIAL KILLERS - Round 37 – Overhauling the System (Host: Theonewhoisodd)

~~~~~READ THIS~~~~~

Alright the point of this round is to do probably the biggest changes to the game. Over the course of my tenure I intend to introduce eight new roles and a new way to distribute all of the roles. Each major change I add over the course of my tenure is going to be up here in a similar way to this. So let's hit this off:

New System:

This round we are going to be trying something new. Since in my opinion all roles fit into one of two categories, Main Roles, and Supporting Roles. These roles have been divided by amount of time and effort. I am going to hand out Role Boxes instead of just roles. Like the Mysterious Item Boxes these role boxes will not tell you which role you have until you open it. You can either open it or refuse to accept it in which case I will re-roll the box's recipient. In a way this will stop from people knowing exactly what roles are distributed per round. If it works we can do it again if not then we can scrap the idea all together.

New Roles:
These roles will be added this round:

Witness - This goblin has witnessed the murderer murdering, he/she has to protect her identity though so they can't tell anyone they are the witness and must try and convince players who the killer is.

False-Witness - There is always a false witness whenever there is a witness, the person is not informed that they are a false witness and are told someone who is not a killer. Witness rules of course apply.

This one may be added if we have enough people for two killers
SPOILERS:True Loves - One innocent and one killer are selected for this role. They know who the other is and their role. The true loves can only win by getting rid of any other killers and outnumbering the citizens. If one dies the other dies of a broken heart.


The lynch voting will close precisely at
10:00 PM Eastern Time (GMT -5 hours)
Any votes marked/kills sent after this time will not be counted.
Updates posted shortly thereafter

Signups, however, close whenever I feel like it, and there is no limit to how many people may sign up.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How it works
Changed/new rules are in italics.

Welcome to Thuntworld Serial Killers, a forum-based murder-mystery game where people die on a daily basis and wild theories are tossed around like rag dolls!

The host will secretly select participating players at random to play the role of the killer, sent to them via private message. A killer’s job is to craft a written passage (or screenshot, soundclip, artwork, or video, if they’re feeling particularly crafty) every day and PM it back to the host. The first of these is what we call the dummy kill - this will give an idea of the killer’s writing style. Every day after that, the killer may select one person to die that round, working it into their kill. The host will present the kills to the entire thread at a specified time each day.

The citizens of the thread must then vote for the person they feel is guiltiest. This person will be lynched at the end of the round. If the innocent citizens lynch all the killers, the citizens win! If the killers evade notice and kill off enough people to outnumber the innocents, the killers win! Each round tends to last one week. Use anything from poltergeists to kitchen utensils, from orange juice to acidic poison, and from simple stab wounds to nursery rhymes. And remember, keep your identity a secret! Kills must also contain at least one clue per turn to the killer's identity (this can be as convoluted as you wish, but must be there).

* The host is always right. No exceptions.
*The host has the right to interpret item effects and trowel effects as he/she sees fit.
* The number of killers each round is determined by the number of players, as is the number/inclusion of any additional roles. The more citizens, the more roles!
* All roles are chosen by random selection and given out secretly by PM.
* Roles must be accepted, if someone does not accept their role within 18 hours the role will be given to someone else.
* The citizens must try and work out who the killers are and vote accordingly. The person with the highest number of votes gets lynched at the same time kills are posted. The host then reveals if the person was a killer or not.
* Every day each killer sends in a single kill. The host then updates this post to show who has died and posts the kills and a lynch, if there is one.
* If by the end of the round the killers outnumber the citizens, or there is only one of each left, the killers win.
* The list of players at the top of this post is updated with every murder and lynch to show those who are alive and those who are dead.
* Citizens who sign up to be in the game must actively participate in the game.
* To sign up, post a sign up list with your display name added to it.
* If something comes up suddenly and you no longer wish to participate BEFORE the game has started, simply remove your name from the list. If you change your mind AFTER the game has started, PM the host and she will graciously remove you from the round.
* Citizens who do not post votes for 3 updates will be slaughtered mercilessly. For example, if Lord Cummerbund posts all during the 1st update, but goes mysteriously silent after the 2nd, and stays so during the 3rd and 4th, he will be killed in the 5th update.
* Player may miss no more than 4 votes, this includes abstaining. Players are also required to write at least 3 sentences per day.
Participation helps the citizens.... Really!
* Player may abstain from voting, but this should be limited to less than 50% of the time.
* Players may not vote for themselves as a method of avoiding voting for another player without abstaining. Any player who votes for himself or herself is considered to have abstained.
* Players voting for anything other than a living player are also considered to have abstained.
* There are no Citizen Suicides.
* Don't go making a sock puppet account just for this game. I will only accept kills sent from the account I have down as the killer.
* The host is always right. No exceptions.

(Special Cases can be dealt with, so PM the host if you have any questions.)

The explanations for the roles and the rest of the rules can be found on the Rules Thread here

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Past Winners:
Round 1: Citizens (Donnigan)
Round 2: Killers (Warlock, Kelten)
Round 3: Citizens (Charles81, RandomMerc, Ming)
Round 4: Citizens (Martinthegoblin, Grim1812, MakesMumCry

Round 5: Killers (psychotic, Wolfie21384, Donnigan)
Round 6: Killers (darkcloud317, knucklekraken, BeamStalk, kelten, HD: Silentobserver)

Round 7: Citizens (BurnsBees, harmsc12, kitsune106)
Round 8: Killers (Kitsune, Warlock, SeeAMoose, notimportant, HD: LooksandSmiles)
Round : Citizens (Zathyra, Orzahn vs. Pointsthingsout, Silentobserver).
Round 10: Citizens (Vid20, CrossWired vs Warlock, HerdsCats)

Round 11: Citizens (Silentobserver, Donnigan, BeamStalk)
Round 12: Citizens (SeeAMoose, xvegeitim, Whooh)
Round 13: Killers (Blitzanger, EvilCoatrack, Kelten, HD: PicksupSticks)
Round 14: Citizens (Wildman vs. Wolfie21384 vs. m0rtimer vs. HerdsCats vs. Darkcloud317)
Round 15: Citizens (PicksUpSticks vs. Vancent vs. BurnsBees)

Round 16: Killers (Warlock, kittihello)
Round 17: Killers (Coalesce, Theonewhoisodd, HD: Zathyra)

Round 18: Citizens (thekool, Kide)
Round 19: Citizens (thatguy, theonewhoisodd)

Round 20: Killers (SeeAMoose, ReadsVoraciously, Ducky: xvegietim)
Round 21: Citizens (Kelten, SharesLoot)
Round 22: Citizens (alopex, kurik, xvegietim)

Round 23: Killers (Quarg, RandomMerc, The kool)
Round 24: Killers (KittiHello, Wildman)
Round 25: Killers (PicksUpSticks, PSychotic)
Round 26: Citizens (Wolfie21384)
Round 27: Killers (Kurik, m0rtimer, AiryBunny HD: BurnsBees)
Round 28: Killers (Alopex VS. Kurik)

Round 29: Lightning Round (Wildman, Sharesloot)
Round 30: Killer (Wolfie21384)
Round 31: Citizens (Theonewhoisodd, Dlover, SpeaksLoudly)
Round 32: Citizens (thatguy, kurik)

Round 33: Killer (Wildman, Rubber Hench Ducky: SeeAMoose)
Round 34: Citizens (Wolfie21384, PicksUpSticks)
Round 35: Citizens (alopex)
Round 36: Citizens (SharesLoot, Theonewhoisodd)


Host List:
Rounds 1-5: Harmsc12
Rounds 6-7: Warlock
Rounds 8-10: Wolfie21384 (This is the last time that we had multiple rounds in one thread)
Rounds 11-12: NonSequtur
Rounds 13-18: SeeAMoose
Rounds 19-24: Wolfie21384
Rounds 25-30: Theonewhoisodd
Rounds 31-36: ReadsVoraciously
Rounds 37-???: Theonewhoisodd

Trowel Contest:
What do you think of my changes?
Last edited by Theonewhoisodd on Thu Dec 01, 2011 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Extra-Dimensional shape-shifter with an affinity for confusion and mischief. Also I am a maniac...

Come lurk my game called The Forsaken.

Very first Bloodhound in Thuntworld Serial Killers.
Round 17 killer as Seth Bainwraith, fought off a lynch mob for 4 rounds until I purposely killed myself with a Trowel to complete the storyline of my kills.
Round 19 killer as Lesser Finger Horror, died in the first round but took the Ex-God SeeAMoose with me thanks to the Kaboomerang. (Thanks Warlock)
Round 31 killer as Forgath, died first round thanks to Vigilante justice...
Round 32 detective, found both killers fairly quickly.
Round 36 killer as FRGU, got hit with a computer error and thoroughly lynched.
Round 37 killer as Overlord, killed everyone and they didn't come back to life.
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Re: TWSK Round 37 - Overhauling the System - Read 1st post

Postby Dusk9 on Thu Nov 24, 2011 8:51 am

1) Dusk9

Trowel Contest
I quite like them. However, the witness role does just seem like a detective who knows the killer's identity without having to ask questions. One possible way to balance it so it isn't so overpowered is for the GM (you) to PM them certain hints to the killer's identity each turn, so they have to actually do some working out for themselves.
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Re: TWSK Round 37 - Overhauling the System - Read 1st post

Postby ReadsVoraciously on Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:09 am

1) Dusk9
2) ReadsVoraciously

Trowel Contest
I have some reservations regarding the Witness/False Witness. I think the existing framework of the game is fairly balanced, if slightly favorable to citizens (20 wins for Citizens, 15 wins for Killers, excluding the Lightning Round). Also, the True Love aspect would also tip the balance further in favor of the citizens, since it effectively doubles the chance for them when lynching. I'm not opposed to trying new things, however. I suppose a resourceful killer will overcome any obstacles. Here's hoping the rules work out. :D
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Re: TWSK Round 37 - Overhauling the System - Read 1st post

Postby SeeAMoose on Thu Nov 24, 2011 10:29 am

1) Dusk9
2) ReadsVoraciously
3) Moose

Trowel Contest:
Yeah... I'm not sold on the witness or false witness. I feel that the citizens don't need any help at this point. I'd also suggest including some indication of the work entailed with a role box. Some people may not have the time to be a killer, but may have enough time to be a detective. I'm open to changes so long as they either maintain or improve the balance of the game, and currently the balance favors the citizens.
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Was detective for 1 turn in round 7, narrowed one killer down to 6 possibilities.
Was detective in Round 31... and was vigilante killed by one of the citizens just as we were about to win.

Round 8 Winner was Caine. Favored Murder Weapon : Citizens
Round 20 Winner was the "Unnamed" killer
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Re: TWSK Round 37 - Overhauling the System - Read 1st post

Postby alopex on Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:13 am

1) Dusk9
2) ReadsVoraciously
3) Moose
4) alopex

Trowel entry:
I personally like the basic rules, but it is nice to try something new. The witnesses bring a slightly different aspect to the citizens' job: then we have two (+ detective) citizens who try to convince the others about the killer's identity. It might decrease the random or gut-feeling votes and increase the bandwagons. On the other hand, it might help the killers so that they can pretend to be a witness or false witness. The clue finding/seeking probably won't increase. :-|
We'll soon see how it goes.
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Re: TWSK Round 37 - Overhauling the System - Read 1st post

Postby knucklekraken on Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:27 am

1) Dusk9
2) ReadsVoraciously
3) Moose
4) alopex
5) knucklekraken

TROWEL ENTRY

It seems to me that if both the witness and the false witness think they are the real witness it might be alright, though you might consider multiple falsies. If a false witness's "murderer" is lynched or killed in the first round they won't provide balance anymore, after all.
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When faced with an encounter involving a predatory creature, a Tasty Person must make a Charisma Check. If the DC (15) is met, the creature will attack the Tasty Person to the exclusion of other targets who are not also Tasty People who have met this DC. The DC should be modified for monsters with a strong sense of smell, I leave this to your discretion as a DM. The monster is not forced to attack the Tasty Person if doing so would cause it to take an attack of opportunity.
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Re: TWSK Round 37 - Overhauling the System - Read 1st post

Postby askstoomuch on Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:41 am

count me in

trowel idea
sond like a good idea i jsut dont understand them really well
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Re: TWSK Round 37 - Overhauling the System - Read 1st post

Postby Theonewhoisodd on Thu Nov 24, 2011 6:20 pm

I see what you all are saying so here is an updated list of the roles:

Witness - This goblin has witnessed the murderer murdering, they will get clues about the killer each round. He/she has to protect his/her identity though so they can't tell anyone they are the witness and must try and convince players who the killer is.

False-Witness - There is always atleast one false witness whenever there is a witness, there may be more depending on the host, the person is not informed that they are a false witness and are told clues towards someone who is not a killer. Witness rules of course apply.

True Loves - One innocent and one killer are selected for this role. They know who the other is and their role. The true loves can only win by getting rid of any other killers and outnumbering the citizens. These two must do all they can to win for each other. If one dies the other dies of a broken heart. NOTE: To protect the innocent good co-ordination and talking between the killers will probably be required.

Better?
Extra-Dimensional shape-shifter with an affinity for confusion and mischief. Also I am a maniac...

Come lurk my game called The Forsaken.

Very first Bloodhound in Thuntworld Serial Killers.
Round 17 killer as Seth Bainwraith, fought off a lynch mob for 4 rounds until I purposely killed myself with a Trowel to complete the storyline of my kills.
Round 19 killer as Lesser Finger Horror, died in the first round but took the Ex-God SeeAMoose with me thanks to the Kaboomerang. (Thanks Warlock)
Round 31 killer as Forgath, died first round thanks to Vigilante justice...
Round 32 detective, found both killers fairly quickly.
Round 36 killer as FRGU, got hit with a computer error and thoroughly lynched.
Round 37 killer as Overlord, killed everyone and they didn't come back to life.
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Re: TWSK Round 37 - Overhauling the System - Read 1st post

Postby SeeAMoose on Thu Nov 24, 2011 7:18 pm

It might help if we knew why you want to overhaul the system and what you're trying to achieve with it. Granted it is different, but I'm not sure how the changes improve the game or why they're needed. But maybe I'm the only one who thinks that.
I'm a Moderator in Thunt's ustream channel, if you need a hand drop one of us a line, we're all always willing to lend a hand.
Come talk about the latest kills in the chat here.
Was detective for 1 turn in round 7, narrowed one killer down to 6 possibilities.
Was detective in Round 31... and was vigilante killed by one of the citizens just as we were about to win.

Round 8 Winner was Caine. Favored Murder Weapon : Citizens
Round 20 Winner was the "Unnamed" killer
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Re: TWSK Round 37 - Overhauling the System - Read 1st post

Postby knucklekraken on Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:25 pm

I think the change of pace will be interesting. Sometimes it's a good idea to change things up just to see, you know?
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Here are stats for a player race I created, compatible with 3.5 D&D. Please steal.

SPOILERS:Tasty People
+2 Charisma: Tasty People have strong natural pheromones.
-2 Wisdom: Tasty People have a racial predisposition for making bad decisions.
When faced with an encounter involving a predatory creature, a Tasty Person must make a Charisma Check. If the DC (15) is met, the creature will attack the Tasty Person to the exclusion of other targets who are not also Tasty People who have met this DC. The DC should be modified for monsters with a strong sense of smell, I leave this to your discretion as a DM. The monster is not forced to attack the Tasty Person if doing so would cause it to take an attack of opportunity.
A Tasty Person's starting class should be treated as his favored class.

Tasty People speak Common.
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Re: TWSK Round 37 - Overhauling the System - Read 1st post

Postby SeeAMoose on Fri Nov 25, 2011 1:06 am

Yeah, it definitely is, but it still helps to know the thinking behind the new rules.
I'm a Moderator in Thunt's ustream channel, if you need a hand drop one of us a line, we're all always willing to lend a hand.
Come talk about the latest kills in the chat here.
Was detective for 1 turn in round 7, narrowed one killer down to 6 possibilities.
Was detective in Round 31... and was vigilante killed by one of the citizens just as we were about to win.

Round 8 Winner was Caine. Favored Murder Weapon : Citizens
Round 20 Winner was the "Unnamed" killer
Tumbles-down-a-hill Lv9 Attacker
Zombie Bait:Trips-on-his-feet HP:0/5 ATK:1 DEF:1 INF: BRAINS!!! Zombified on Turn 81
Come to Goblins Games for some fun. There's murder and mayhem, teamwork, flag capturing, and role playing galore.
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Re: TWSK Round 37 - Overhauling the System - Read 1st post

Postby Dlover on Fri Nov 25, 2011 1:27 am

1) Dusk9
2) ReadsVoraciously
3) Moose
4) alopex
5) knucklekraken
6) Askstoomuch
7)Dlover

Trowel entry:
It's an interesting concept. We'll have to see how it works. The role-box, I personally think, is a good idea, but it would be entertaining if there were no citizens, and anyone who hasn't received a role other than citizen is a false witness or witness.
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Re: TWSK Round 37 - Overhauling the System - Read 1st post

Postby SharesLoot on Fri Nov 25, 2011 2:01 am

01) Dusk9
02) ReadsVoraciously
03) Moose
04) alopex
05) knucklekraken
06) AsksTooMuch
07) Dlover
08) SharesLoot

Trowel Entry
The (false) witness role is great in principle, because people with a role are more likely to participate in the game. However, if you know you could have multiple false witnesses, the advantage is reduced to having someone on your list for a reason. If there are 4 witnesses and I am one of them, I only have 25% chance of knowing the killer. That's better than being a citizen, but not decisively.
If we have the witness roles, the witnesses can ensure a win even if most of them are false. Everyone just needs to vote for "their" killer(s), and BAM, we have a short list that includes the killer. If all witnesses are truthful (to their knowledge) and vote for their killer, the round should take a maximum of three turns. Of course, we can rely on someone being chaotic evil and forgetting to vote for their killer. If they are the only true witness, the killers win. Yeah :-?

The true love concept has been spoken of/explained several times in the past. It is a weaker and much more vulnerable version of the Hench Ducky, who knows all the killers and isn't linked to their individual survival. It could, of course, lead to more participation, because the killer/citizen duo is forced to defend each other. However, there are many weak killers/unreliable posters in play, so this might weaken the killers further.

I'd say try the new rules, but discuss them again in Round 38.

Odd: I second Moose's question (reasons behind reworking the system) and have my own - there are main roles and supporting roles, you say. You did not explain what is main, what is supporting. Please do!
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Re: TWSK Round 37 - Overhauling the System - Read 1st post

Postby Dlover on Fri Nov 25, 2011 2:40 am

I'm guessing main roles are roles you have to have in each round, such as killer and citizen, while supporting roles are ones where you don't have to have them for a round, such as detective, or with the new implementations, witness.
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Re: TWSK Round 37 - Overhauling the System - Read 1st post

Postby SharesLoot on Fri Nov 25, 2011 4:02 am

Dlover wrote:I'm guessing main roles are roles you have to have in each round, such as killer and citizen, while supporting roles are ones where you don't have to have them for a round, such as detective, or with the new implementations, witness.

Hm, I think detective is a main role because we have one every round, right? Was there ever a round without one? Nope.
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Re: TWSK Round 37 - Overhauling the System - Read 1st post

Postby Dlover on Fri Nov 25, 2011 4:09 am

Alright, that could possibly fall under main, but I was thinking more the game doesn't work at all without mains.
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Re: TWSK Round 37 - Overhauling the System - Read 1st post

Postby SharesLoot on Fri Nov 25, 2011 4:21 am

Dlover wrote:Alright, that could possibly fall under main, but I was thinking more the game doesn't work at all without mains.

See, that's why I'm asking Odd to clarify this :smug:
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Re: TWSK Round 37 - Overhauling the System - Read 1st post

Postby KittiHello on Fri Nov 25, 2011 10:11 am

01) Dusk9
02) ReadsVoraciously
03) Moose
04) alopex
05) knucklekraken
06) AsksTooMuch
07) Dlover
08) SharesLoot
09) KittiHello

Trowel:
Personally, I like the original version of the witnesses better. Unless a player is being a really LAME detective and saying "hey, I'm the detective and the killer is Steve" the detective is usually lynched out of suspicious behavior. It stands to reason that the witnesses might be lynched like crazy as well. The changed version of the witnesses seems to ensure it as nearly impossible for them to determine if theyre false, harder than if someone has a warped magnifying glass, and I don't like it as much. Even with the changes, it seems less confusing than the mikado set to me (not that it wasn't interesting!).
If you are going to classify roles as major and secondary, you need to make that information available for when the boxes are distributed- if someone isn't able to take a killer but could take the 10 minutes for a detective question... So they have the chance to decline a major role without taking the several days to reassign killer roles that it sometimes ends up as. So maybe there should be a new player responsibility caveat that states that if a player knows they won't have time for a major role but is willing to take a minor one, or is not available for any role, to PM the Boss so they aren't included in that type of role rolling. Just throwing out thoughts on that one.
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Re: TWSK Round 37 - Overhauling the System - Read 1st post

Postby Theonewhoisodd on Fri Nov 25, 2011 12:49 pm

Okay so in regards to what Kitti said I think we will run it the changed way this round and if I deem it reasonable we can run it the original way next round.

In regards to Main vs. Support roles:

Main Roles:

Killer (Including true lover role)
Detective

Support Roles:

HenchDucky
BloodHound
Witness/False Witness
Innocent Lover

I will post a list up in the rules thread if we decide to keep this change.
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Re: TWSK Round 37 - Overhauling the System - Read 1st post

Postby PicksUpSticks on Fri Nov 25, 2011 2:14 pm

1-9. Everyone who's not PicksUpSticks
10. PicksUpSticks.


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Re: TWSK Round 37 - Overhauling the System - Read 1st post

Postby Dlover on Fri Nov 25, 2011 3:28 pm

01) Dusk9
02) ReadsVoraciously
03) Moose
04) Alopex
05) KnuckleKraken
06) AsksTooMuch
07) Dlover
08) SharesLoot
09) KittiHello
10) PicksUpSticks

Fixed list.
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Re: TWSK Round 37 - Overhauling the System - Read 1st post

Postby TemptsFate on Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:02 am

01) Dusk9
02) ReadsVoraciously
03) Moose
04) Alopex
05) KnuckleKraken
06) AsksTooMuch
07) Dlover
08) SharesLoot
09) KittiHello
10) PicksUpSticks
11) TemptsFate

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Re: TWSK Round 37 - Overhauling the System - Read 1st post

Postby thatguy on Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:21 am

01) Dusk9
02) ReadsVoraciously
03) Moose
04) Alopex
05) KnuckleKraken
06) AsksTooMuch
07) Dlover
08) SharesLoot
09) KittiHello
10) PicksUpSticks
11) TemptsFate
12) thatguy
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Re: TWSK Round 37 - Overhauling the System - Read 1st post

Postby Kide on Sun Nov 27, 2011 1:31 pm

The unlucky number. ^^

01) Dusk9
02) ReadsVoraciously
03) Moose
04) Alopex
05) KnuckleKraken
06) AsksTooMuch
07) Dlover
08) SharesLoot
09) KittiHello
10) PicksUpSticks
11) TemptsFate
12) thatguy
13) Kide

Trowel entry: Well the changes are going to be interestning and they need to be tested, before we can certanly say how they effect the game play. But I am fine with trying new things, so no problems with that.
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Re: TWSK Round 37 - Overhauling the System - Read 1st post

Postby davecom3 on Sun Nov 27, 2011 1:56 pm

Even not having played, I think there are some major problems with the witness and false witness roles. This is that they will be strongly indicating their thoughts of who the killer is, which may drop the amount of possible killers to 2 with the way you have things written up, and the only way for the killers to combat this would be to throw in more fake witnesses, but in doing so, they're revealing who the real witness is. In other words, I cannot see these roles actually working. Just my two-cents worth from somebody who hasn't actually played the game.

Even without this, there's the problem that the serial killer doesn't know who the fake witness has been told is the killer, so he cannot guarantee that he puts in proof against the false witness's suspect, and this makes it easier for the real witness to argue strongly in support of the real killer, who must put in evidence that supports himself being guilty.
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