Goblin Gladiators Campaign 1 - Complete

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Goblin Gladiators Campaign 1 - Complete

Postby Wildman on Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:25 am

I'm gonna try my hand at running a game. Be advised, it may fail horribly. I may quit halfway through. It could flat out suck. It might also be awesome. I'm hoping for the latter.

There will be pictures, but really simple ones (grids with text and colors made in MSExcel, even simpler than the tower game) because I can't draw. If that bothers you, I've got a simple solution: don't sign up. There will be room for 6 players. Sign ups will be open through Saturday. Then, I'll randomly select 6 players from those that signed up. On Sunday, players will select their class, and the game will begin on Monday. Once the game starts, updates will be made daily M-F, with weekends predesignated skip days. Like everyone (well, most everyone) else on the forum, I've got a life away from goblins so other skip or later-than-normal days may crop up unexpectedly. Players will be expected to post before 5:30PM and I hope to have the updates posted by 6:30PM EST.

Game overview:
Goblin Gladiators is a tactics wargame. The 6 players are a gladiator team and will be put through a series of battles. If the group completes the battle's objective, then the group (even those that fall unconscious during the battle) proceeds to the next battle. Pretty straight-forward. Each of the 6 players will play a different class selected from the 6 available. If the players can't agree who will play what class, then I will decide randomly who gets what for those that remain undecided. I'll list the classes and their stats after we have our 6 players. If a player ever decides they don't want to play anymore, that's fine. Just let me know and I'll open up the spot to a new player.

List of stats:
HP: Hit points. When it gets to 0, the character falls unconscious and cannot act for the remainder of the battle.
Atk: Attack power, the amount of damage dealt per attack. Spells aren't listed as an Atk value, but rather as an ability.
Def: Defense, the amount of damage reduction per attack (not per turn).
Spd: Speed, the number of move points you get from one move action.
Init: Initiative. The higher the number, the sooner you get to act. You may choose to act at any initiative level at or below your initiative stat.

On a turn, a character can take two actions from the following list: Move, Attack, or Use Ability. Abilities will be many and varied. The only abilities at the start of the game will be beginner spells for the Shaman and Teller. Players are allowed to pick the same action twice, so they can move twice (2x speed), attack twice, or move once and attack once. After you declare your action, you can break it up any way you want. For example, you could declare a move and an attack. Then, you could move a space, attack, then move the remainder of your spaces. When making a post to declare your characters action, you can use a single IF...THEN...ELSE statement, but you can't use any AND or OR statements.

Here's the catch. All actions (even NPCs actions that are hidden to players) are submitted simultaneously, but they are carried out in initiative order.

Here is an example: Chief and the enemy elf are all that is remaining in the battle. The elf is using a ranged attack, while Chief is melee. The two characters are 5 spaces apart (they both have a move of 5). The elf has the higher Init, so whatever actions are declared, the elf will carry his out first. Let's say Chief declares 1 move and 1 attack action, hoping to close the last 5 space and then wallop the elf. However, the elf also declares 1 move and 1 attack action, hoping to shoot at the chief and then back up 5 spaces making the distance between 10. So, with both these orders in (as GM, I'd make the elf's order before looking at any player orders), the elf goes first with his higher Init. He shoots at Chief, then backs up. When Chief goes, he moves up 5 and swings at the air. If Chief was smarter, he would have declared 2 move actions, hoping to close distance on the elf, entering engagement (discussed below), and planning to attack the elf on the next turn.

Each goblin can equip 1 weapon, 1 piece of armor, and 1 'other' item. Before each battle, the team will be given gear (that will be returned at the end of the battle). The group divvies up the gear as they see fit. Any item may be dropped as a free action during battle, and items may be handed to adjacent friendly characters for 1 move point (those characters can immediately equip the item). Then, the team looks at the map schematic provided and each goblin chooses one of the starting locations and the battle commences.

Supplementary rules:
Engagement and Attacks of Opportunity: When a character with a melee weapon is next to a hostile character, the two characters are considered to be engaged. If a character leaves the engagement of a melee opponent, that opponent gets an attack of opportunity. Ranged and magic users cannot make attacks of opportunity.
Lucky Strike: A lucky strike is only possible if you would normally do no damage. You have a 10% chance to do 1 damage ignoring armor.
Cover: You can hide behind an inanimate object, forcing ranged attackers to move to the side to be able to shoot you. You must be adjacent to the inanimate object to get cover, and the ranged/magic attacker can overcome it by moving to or beyond 45 degrees. Note: AoE spells can still affect you even if the caster couldn't attack you directly. One character may provide cover for another, but the character providing cover must agree to do so.

If you haven't noticed yet, many (but not all) of these rules are taken from the board game Descent, of which I'm a big fan. If people like the format, I may add more players later (or maybe even run a PvP battle through PMs).

That's it, so sign up already!
Last edited by Wildman on Wed Aug 31, 2011 3:45 am, edited 3 times in total.
Goblin Gladiators Campaign 2

Goblin Gladiators Campaign 1 is Complete.
Little Hands is currently in the Pit of Danger, and will be for quite some time.
Successful killer in TSK Round 24. Partner: KittiHello.
Co-winner of the TSK Lightning Round, along with SharesLoot.
Successful killer in TSK Round 33, with some help from SeeAMoose at the end.
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Re: Goblin Gladiators

Postby m0rtimer on Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:56 am

Wildman wrote: even simpler than the tower game


Blasphemy! It could not possibly be simpler then the tower game :wink:

Anyways, probally not going to sign up, as I vowed not to commit myself to any more games before my exams are over (here's hoping there will be a few good new ones starting afterwards :shifty: ) but best of luck anyways!
ME JAM STICK IN STONE. ME CREATE LEVER.

goblin heroes - Completed
threads of reality - in progress
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Re: Goblin Gladiators

Postby ArcticTornado on Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:15 am

Sign me up please!
Chief Gets to the Chopper
2/6 HP :: 0/12 Inf
4 Atk :: 5 Def


Inverted Luck
ATK: 4-6 (+2 Brakeblade, +1 Thief Blade, +0/+1 Thief Armor (25%), +0/+1 Short Blade Specialty (50%))
DEF: 6-7(+1 Goblin, +1 Thief Armor, +1 Thick Skin, +0/+1 Leather Helm (50%), +1 Iron Bracer, +1 Iron Bracer)
HP: 5/5
Pack: Very Pointy Pencil, 78 gold pieces, Leather Armor, Dagger, Challenge Note, Random Book, Short Rope
Abilities: Renew (+1 HP, Major Action, touch), Lady Luck (double % chance to most items/abilities, passive).
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Re: Goblin Gladiators

Postby thatguy on Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:21 am

ill sign up
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Re: Goblin Gladiators

Postby PSychotic on Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:50 pm

i can't join, but i will lurk this game and help bump it back up!
Shi' Arri, Decroi, Canton, Sicoh, Tig, Jack, and Mack.

The Dread Pirate Scarrrgh, Kobold Pirate ..... dead just like half his crew
Lisps, Goblin Defender ..... Feats: Improved Tackle 2, Tackle Stamina 2, Improved Dodging 1
That Nameless Guy, Undead Warrior ..... STR 5 DEX 3 CON 3 ..... HP ?/? ..... 4 Throwing Knives, Axe (+3), Heavy Leather Armor (5/5)
Shiny, Not So Dead Goblin ..... ATK 1 DEF 1 ..... HP 5/5
Jack-Of-All-Trades, Lucky Goblin ..... ATK 0 DEF 1 ..... HP 5/5 MP 5/5 ..... Spells: Buff/Debuff, Thief!, Acrobatic F@#king Pirouette!
Bringer-Of-New-Times, Goblin Teller ..... ATK 1 DEF 1 ..... HP 5/5 ..... Spells: Heal

Hosting a Cave of Doom
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Re: Goblin Gladiators

Postby knucklekraken on Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:54 pm

Sounds interesting. I'll wait to sign up, though. If there's still a spot open in a couple days (which seems unlikely) I'll jump in.
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Here are stats for a player race I created, compatible with 3.5 D&D. Please steal.

SPOILERS:Tasty People
+2 Charisma: Tasty People have strong natural pheromones.
-2 Wisdom: Tasty People have a racial predisposition for making bad decisions.
When faced with an encounter involving a predatory creature, a Tasty Person must make a Charisma Check. If the DC (15) is met, the creature will attack the Tasty Person to the exclusion of other targets who are not also Tasty People who have met this DC. The DC should be modified for monsters with a strong sense of smell, I leave this to your discretion as a DM. The monster is not forced to attack the Tasty Person if doing so would cause it to take an attack of opportunity.
A Tasty Person's starting class should be treated as his favored class.

Tasty People speak Common.
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Re: Goblin Gladiators

Postby Taberah on Wed Jun 15, 2011 4:25 pm

I would like to join.

Not saying anything about this game, just talking in general. Not sure if I like randomly drawn lots. On one hand I have trouble getting into a game because everyone's so darn fast at posting. On the other hand the waiting, oh the waiting.
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Re: Goblin Gladiators

Postby Haragorn on Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:44 am

I'm in.
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Re: Goblin Gladiators

Postby SharesLoot on Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:11 am

I'll give it a try.

Current list of candidates (6 will be chosen):
  1. ArcticTornado
  2. thatguy
  3. Taberah
  4. Haragorn
  5. SharesLoot
╔═Clan Rampage══Goblin Gladiators II══Hats II══The Forsaken═══╗
╠═Hairy═════════Little Feet═════════Falls════Cockadoodle═══╣
╚═════════════════════════════════════════════════╝
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Re: Goblin Gladiators

Postby Wildman on Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:58 pm

Thanks for making the list SharesLoot.

Those that want to sign up, please copy the list and add your name to it so I won't have to keep track of it on my own.
Yes, this post is really just here to get the thread back towards the top of the stack.
Goblin Gladiators Campaign 2

Goblin Gladiators Campaign 1 is Complete.
Little Hands is currently in the Pit of Danger, and will be for quite some time.
Successful killer in TSK Round 24. Partner: KittiHello.
Co-winner of the TSK Lightning Round, along with SharesLoot.
Successful killer in TSK Round 33, with some help from SeeAMoose at the end.
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Re: Goblin Gladiators

Postby Wildman on Sat Jun 18, 2011 5:34 am

Sign ups will close later today. I was hoping for more interest, but it looks like we'll have enough to play if kk joins in. I'll send out the class details later today or tomorrow and players can start deciding who will play what.
Goblin Gladiators Campaign 2

Goblin Gladiators Campaign 1 is Complete.
Little Hands is currently in the Pit of Danger, and will be for quite some time.
Successful killer in TSK Round 24. Partner: KittiHello.
Co-winner of the TSK Lightning Round, along with SharesLoot.
Successful killer in TSK Round 33, with some help from SeeAMoose at the end.
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Wildman
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Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2011 4:41 am
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Re: Goblin Gladiators

Postby Taberah on Sat Jun 18, 2011 5:56 am

I would sign up again if I was allowed :D.
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Re: Goblin Gladiators

Postby Experiment on Sat Jun 18, 2011 6:21 am

This sounds pretty fun, I'm always up for a good strategy game. Sign me up!
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A Fiesty One
HP: 5/5
Att: 3 (4 vs wildlife)
Def: 3 (4 vs undead)
Inventory:
A bunch of text that I will spare you from.
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Re: Goblin Gladiators

Postby Taberah on Sat Jun 18, 2011 6:29 am

Here ya go I'll add ya to the list.

Current list of candidates (6 will be chosen):

1. ArcticTornado
2. thatguy
3. Taberah
4. Haragorn
5. SharesLoot
6. Experiment
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Re: Goblin Gladiators

Postby Wildman on Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:29 am

Since we've got 6 players and there doesn't seem to be all that much more interest, let's get this thing started. Here is the final list of players:

1. ArcticTornado
2. thatguy
3. Taberah
4. Haragorn
5. SharesLoot
6. Experiment

Here are the initial stats of the 6 classes (I will maintain a list of all abilities the group has encountered, see below):
Code: Select all
Class      Atk  Def  HP   Init  Spd  Abilities
Berserker  1    0    5    6     5
Shaman     0    0    3    4     4    Fire 1 (R5)
Scout      0    0    4    10    6
Chief      1    0    5    4     3    Heavy Armor
Teller     0    0    3    2     4    Heavy Armor, Heal 1 (R4)
Ranger     0    0    4    8     5    Heavy Armor

So, it may seem at first glance that some characters are better than others, but as the group progresses, each class will gain a variety of ability upticks or new abilities. I'm going to try and give each character their own time to shine. Each player picks one class, and no two players can have the same class. Note: all characters can punch (melee Atk w/ no additional damage) and equip light armor.

Ability List:
Heavy Armor - Character can equip heavy armor.
Fire 1 (R5) - Deals 1 damage, ignoring Def, to a target within 5 spaces.
Heal 1 (R4) - Restores 1 HP to a target within 4 spaces.
Pierce 1 - Attacks ignore 1 Def. If pierce is greater than armor, excess pierce is ignored.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Battle #1

Having formed a gladiator team, you are ready for your first battle. You have been given the following equipment for the battle. It will be fought in a bland square arena. Your opponents are two dwarves and two elves, and you should win handily. Consider it an introduction to gladiatorial combat.

Objective: Eliminate all opposition

Available gear:
Code: Select all
Gear     Type     Sub-Type    Bonus
Sword    Weapon   Melee       +1 Atk
Sword    Weapon   Melee       +1 Atk
Bow      Weapon   Ranged      +1 Atk (R4), Pierce 1
Bow      Weapon   Ranged      +1 Atk (R4), Pierce 1
Hide     Armor    Heavy       +2 Def
Hide     Armor    Heavy       +2 Def
Cloth    Armor    Light       +1 Def
Cloth    Armor    Light       +1 Def
Note: Remember, the gear will be returned after the battle. However, most battles will have similar gear, so don't fret over it.

Enemies:
Code: Select all
Enemy    Atk  Def  HP   Init  Spd  Gear
Dwarf    3    1    4    3     3    Sword
Elf      1    0    3    7     4    Bow (R4 P1)
Note: P1 means pierce 1.

The arena:
Image

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Like I said, very simple art. Hopefully you can tell the two elves from the two dwarves.

Mechanics Notes:
-- Remember, you can act at your Init score or any Init score lower than yours. If multiple characters act at the same Init and affect each other, I'll randomly determine who acts first.
-- Remember, each character (including enemies) gets two actions every turn.
-- In general, gear can be taken from a character (even enemies) once they fall unconscious by moving to that space and spending 1 movement point. Any gear taken will be returned like normal after a fight.

To-do list for players:
1) Pick your class. If two or more players want the same class, argue about it. If you can't decide by tomorrow, I'll pick randomly.
2) Pick a color for your goblin, and tell me the color code (I'll do my best to match it with MS paint - if anyone know how to match exactly in MS paint, PM me). Names are optional (If you don't pick a name, I'm gonna refer to you by class).
3) Decide who gets what gear for the fight. There is rarely enough to go around.
4) Everyone pick one of the starting locations C10 thru H10.
5) Once all that is settled, I'll slap the goblins onto the map and ask everyone to post their first actions.

If anyone has any questions about game mechanics or anything else feel free to either post them or PM me.
Goblin Gladiators Campaign 2

Goblin Gladiators Campaign 1 is Complete.
Little Hands is currently in the Pit of Danger, and will be for quite some time.
Successful killer in TSK Round 24. Partner: KittiHello.
Co-winner of the TSK Lightning Round, along with SharesLoot.
Successful killer in TSK Round 33, with some help from SeeAMoose at the end.
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Re: Goblin Gladiators

Postby Taberah on Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:50 am

oo Dips on the shaman(I know there is no dibs but felt like saying it anyway), I was just thinking I wanted to play a pyromancer :D

To-do list for players:
1) Shaman.
2) What type of self respecting pyromancer wouldn't have red as his color. FF0000
3) I wouldn't mind some cloth armor, I'll need some def if I want to live long. And passing on all weapons because I have MAGIC.
4) C10.

Flavor stuff:
Name: Laughs-and-Fires
Background: It was a sad day when Laughs was born, the teller predicted he would bring a great amount of suffering to the world. Laughs doesn't let that get him down, he enjoys every second of every day. When he's not practicing his magic burning bushes he's having a good old time imaging what it would be like to be burning bushes. Some say he's single minded but he likes to think of himself as dedicated to the cause. He's tires his best to never burn the ones he cares about, but he can't stop nature.
Clan Name: I'm so pushing for Crushing River(I'm horrible with names btw and totally willing to change my vote. We could already have a clan name so in that case this won't matter much.)

Question how does moving/shooting diagonally work?
Two more questions
"Engagement and Attacks of Opportunity: When a character with a melee weapon is next to a hostile character, the two characters are considered to be engaged." So long as I don't hold a weapon I don't provoke from running away?
Can I do some fan arts of my dude?
Last edited by Taberah on Sat Jun 18, 2011 10:34 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Goblin Gladiators

Postby Wildman on Sat Jun 18, 2011 10:05 am

Taberah wrote:Question how does moving/shooting diagonally work?

You can move diagonally freely, and you can shoot diagonally freely. Range always counts lowest possible number of moves, ignoring obstacles (I'm allowing archers/casters to lob shots) unless otherwise stated. For example, shooting (or moving) from A1 to D3 takes a range (or movement points) of 3.

In general you can move through friendlies but not enemies, but that rule probably won't be needed for a wide-open battle like the first one.
Goblin Gladiators Campaign 2

Goblin Gladiators Campaign 1 is Complete.
Little Hands is currently in the Pit of Danger, and will be for quite some time.
Successful killer in TSK Round 24. Partner: KittiHello.
Co-winner of the TSK Lightning Round, along with SharesLoot.
Successful killer in TSK Round 33, with some help from SeeAMoose at the end.
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Re: Goblin Gladiators

Postby Taberah on Sat Jun 18, 2011 10:16 am

Woo, I was sticking around for I could call first dibs on a class O: didn't want to get the short end. Just tell me if I'm being to much of a nit picker. I'll tone it down. I'm normally in charge of rules/paper work in my dnd group, not because we need a dude for it but because I enjoy it. :lol:
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Re: Goblin Gladiators

Postby Wildman on Sat Jun 18, 2011 10:29 am

Taberah wrote:Woo, I was sticking around for I could call first dibs on a class O: didn't want to get the short end. Just tell me if I'm being to much of a nit picker. I'll tone it down. I'm normally in charge of rules/paper work in my dnd group, not because we need a dude for it but because I enjoy it. :lol:

Its all good. Invariably at some point a rule will cause harm, so its good to get the nitpicking out of the way up front so players don't get burned by a rule they thought would work in a particular fashion.
Goblin Gladiators Campaign 2

Goblin Gladiators Campaign 1 is Complete.
Little Hands is currently in the Pit of Danger, and will be for quite some time.
Successful killer in TSK Round 24. Partner: KittiHello.
Co-winner of the TSK Lightning Round, along with SharesLoot.
Successful killer in TSK Round 33, with some help from SeeAMoose at the end.
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Wildman
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Re: Goblin Gladiators

Postby Taberah on Sat Jun 18, 2011 10:32 am

I have a nasty habit of editing my posts, do you want me to create a new one every time I drastically change my post?
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Re: Goblin Gladiators

Postby Wildman on Sat Jun 18, 2011 11:45 am

Either way is fine with me.
Goblin Gladiators Campaign 2

Goblin Gladiators Campaign 1 is Complete.
Little Hands is currently in the Pit of Danger, and will be for quite some time.
Successful killer in TSK Round 24. Partner: KittiHello.
Co-winner of the TSK Lightning Round, along with SharesLoot.
Successful killer in TSK Round 33, with some help from SeeAMoose at the end.
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Wildman
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Re: Goblin Gladiators

Postby Taberah on Sat Jun 18, 2011 11:57 am

Alright, here are a couple more questions.

"Engagement and Attacks of Opportunity: When a character with a melee weapon is next to a hostile character, the two characters are considered to be engaged." So long as I don't hold a weapon I don't provoke from running away?
Can I do some fan arts of my dude?

Also I'm so going to bed been up waay to long. can't wait to see a couple posts when I wake up :D.
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Re: Goblin Gladiators

Postby ArcticTornado on Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:31 pm

Taberah wrote:Alright, here are a couple more questions.

"Engagement and Attacks of Opportunity: When a character with a melee weapon is next to a hostile character, the two characters are considered to be engaged." So long as I don't hold a weapon I don't provoke from running away?
Can I do some fan arts of my dude?

Also I'm so going to bed been up waay to long. can't wait to see a couple posts when I wake up :D.


If the enemy has a melee weapon you'll be engaged though...

Alright, I'll edit character stuff into this post gradually. But I'm not playing chief. I've played that role enough for now.

Mild Mannered
Beserker - backup scout - backup ranger
3) I'd like the cloth armour, and a sword if possible. (at least one of the two please)
4) C10

Also, I (probably) won't be able to post updates from Monday through Wednesday.
Last edited by ArcticTornado on Sat Jun 18, 2011 1:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Chief Gets to the Chopper
2/6 HP :: 0/12 Inf
4 Atk :: 5 Def


Inverted Luck
ATK: 4-6 (+2 Brakeblade, +1 Thief Blade, +0/+1 Thief Armor (25%), +0/+1 Short Blade Specialty (50%))
DEF: 6-7(+1 Goblin, +1 Thief Armor, +1 Thick Skin, +0/+1 Leather Helm (50%), +1 Iron Bracer, +1 Iron Bracer)
HP: 5/5
Pack: Very Pointy Pencil, 78 gold pieces, Leather Armor, Dagger, Challenge Note, Random Book, Short Rope
Abilities: Renew (+1 HP, Major Action, touch), Lady Luck (double % chance to most items/abilities, passive).
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Re: Goblin Gladiators

Postby SharesLoot on Sat Jun 18, 2011 1:25 pm

Big Strides
  1. Class: Ranger (else Scout)
  2. Color: green (#008000) or brown (#800000)
  3. Gear: only a bow
  4. Start: center, 10 E or F H10


___________________________
EDIT: Changed name and start position

I now read all the rules posted so far and am getting really excited about the game!
Last edited by SharesLoot on Sun Jun 19, 2011 8:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
╔═Clan Rampage══Goblin Gladiators II══Hats II══The Forsaken═══╗
╠═Hairy═════════Little Feet═════════Falls════Cockadoodle═══╣
╚═════════════════════════════════════════════════╝
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Re: Goblin Gladiators

Postby Wildman on Sat Jun 18, 2011 1:57 pm

Taberah wrote:"Engagement and Attacks of Opportunity: When a character with a melee weapon is next to a hostile character, the two characters are considered to be engaged." So long as I don't hold a weapon I don't provoke from running away?
Can I do some fan arts of my dude?

I should have clarified here - you are engaged if you are next to an enemy that can equip a melee weapon whether or not they actually have one equipped. If they don't have one equipped, then their attack of opportunity will just be a punch (+0 Atk) that might not event dent your armor. I think I mentioned it, but to clarify: attacks of opportunity are only triggered when you leave engagement, not when you enter engagement. Melee characters can make any number of attacks of opportunity per round. If you walk past someone, you may take 3 attacks of opportunity (eg, if a dwarf is in D5 and you are in E7 and move in a straight line to E3). In general, if someone says "I move from here to here" and there is a path that can avoid attacks of opportunity, I automatically let you take that path unless you specify otherwise. I realize this is a strong rule, but since I've made ranged/casters deal pretty much the same damage, I want the melee guys to be able to exert positional control over the battlefield.

ArcticTornado wrote:Also, I (probably) won't be able to post updates from Monday through Wednesday.

Just for this week, or on a regular basis? If it is just this week, then I'm fine with you assigning someone to make your character's actions, or allowing the other players to vote. If you can't post every Mon thru Wed, then you might want to reconsider participating as those are 60% of the post days.
Last edited by Wildman on Sat Jun 18, 2011 2:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Goblin Gladiators Campaign 2

Goblin Gladiators Campaign 1 is Complete.
Little Hands is currently in the Pit of Danger, and will be for quite some time.
Successful killer in TSK Round 24. Partner: KittiHello.
Co-winner of the TSK Lightning Round, along with SharesLoot.
Successful killer in TSK Round 33, with some help from SeeAMoose at the end.
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Wildman
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