12/13/11 "An Unaccounted Variable"

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Re: 12/13/11 "An Unaccounted Variable"

Postby jbrecken on Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:19 pm

I think the unaccounted variable is Kore. Forgath is destined to face off against Kore, and Destiny is a very strong force in the universe, so Our Heroes have to survive this adventure. PsyMax can erase the past, but he can't erase the future because it hasn't happened yet. And yet the future has already been written. Thus the paradox.
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Re: 12/13/11 "An Unaccounted Variable"

Postby skythorn on Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:33 pm

I am fairly sure the unaccounted for variable is Zimmy - her powers mostly allow her to be recalled by some despite her oblivianation.

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(but I checked my fanart harddrive, nothing there - but thats a false negative anyhow, proof of her being oblivianed)
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Re: 12/13/11 "An Unaccounted Variable"

Postby SharesLoot on Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:00 am

Wait... Zimmy never entered the maze of many. She went to Gunnerkrigg court instead!
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Re: 12/13/11 "An Unaccounted Variable"

Postby Tessmctessy on Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:24 am

Daize wrote:Hmm... I don't really believe that they're "holes", rather than "nothingness" in which the matter dissolves. This is at least the impression I get from ThisMax's scream here: http://www.goblinscomic.com/12092011-2/ . His scream doesn't indicate that he's moving further away, or that the scream is becoming softer... it just gradually becomes "nothing".

This being said, if everything becomes "nothing", I don't see how a simple pin in the wall would stop that.

I'd love to see other/new arguments and thoughts on the matter though :)


But look at his fingers before hand when he falls. There are draggy motion lines, so he's being pulled in, and once he's in, he vanishes. He wasn't close enough initially to simply fall in, he was looking in and spontaneously fell down and then was dragged in. Being pinned to the wall prevents this from happening.
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Re: 12/13/11 "An Unaccounted Variable"

Postby Daize on Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:21 am

I'm glad someone noticed that :).

My line of reasoning here, is that because of what PsiMax is doing, 'things' dissolve into nothingness. Arguably, this could start anywhere: with the people themselves, air, walls, ceilings, floors... Apparently, this happens gradually, and then expands (or as you could say it, the holes of nothingness expand).

This line of reasoning makes it possible for ThisMax to be 'caught by surprise' by the expanding 'hole of nothingness'. This makes is plausible that he isn't dragged in, but that he in fact, is trying to drag/crawl himself out. These lines only indicate movement after all.
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Re: 12/13/11 "An Unaccounted Variable"

Postby ReadsAMouse on Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:28 am

The heroes can't move because of the staples, so the holes have to be where PsiMax thought they'd be.

So the reality PsiMax expects:
MinMax was too far away to get his buckle in the magnification hole.
PipeMax and Forghast are still alive, one of them is stood in front of MinMax.

In actual reality:
The staples are still there because PsiMax missed PipeMax.
There might be a hole under the giant buckle, if the holes grow it will get the staple-ring just in time.

Whatever the variable is, it was before Forgath was stapled to the wall. My guess is it's a PCs-are-the-ones-who-save-the-universe: a min-max would run the race as quick as possible, only a player-character would get his head stuck in the magnification hole. :lol:
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Re: 12/13/11 "An Unaccounted Variable"

Postby skythorn on Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:34 am

SharesLoot wrote:Wait... Zimmy never entered the maze of many. She went to Gunnerkrigg court instead!
:shifty:


ah - it's a passageway to another webcomic universe - not nothingness after all .. ;)
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Re: 12/13/11 "An Unaccounted Variable"

Postby StaysUpTooLate on Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:42 am

skythorn wrote:
SharesLoot wrote:Wait... Zimmy never entered the maze of many. She went to Gunnerkrigg court instead!
:shifty:


ah - it's a passageway to another webcomic universe - not nothingness after all .. ;)


We must notify Tom Siddell immediately so he can alter his webcomic to compensate! :shifty: :o :shifty:

Wait! He already did.
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Re: 12/13/11 "An Unaccounted Variable"

Postby Brasten on Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:29 am

De-lurking to say I love Kin's face in panel 12 when realization strikes in panel 11 as to what article of clothing was likely next to be obliterated from reality.


The Simpons TV show said it best:

Ned: Hey Homie, I can see your doodle.
Homer: Shut up, Flanders.
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Re: 12/13/11 "An Unaccounted Variable"

Postby kylealdrete on Thu Dec 15, 2011 6:11 am

the fact that they have NEVER succeeded? or been replaced a single time? (as opposed to all the other groups that have)

perhaps the variable is kin and minmax's loveyness? *something the psymax would never have considered since none of the OTHER combos were in love* that would be twice those feelings save them ^_^

perhaps he just wrote an x a little lopsided and it looked like a y? i do that all the time...sorry other realities, i should sharpen my pen

maybe this dungeon has a thing like deepfreeze, and even if psymax DOES erase everything from ever existing, it would all just pop back, so this particular time is the ultimate "luck out" for our group, in an infinite loop your bound to get a time where the main baddy makes a mistake. its like "reroll EVERY SINGLE DICE until every one of the bads is a fumble and all mine are crits...may take oh...2 million times, but its bound to happen sooner or later.

the dm would so hate me if i did that :grumble:
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Re: 12/13/11 "An Unaccounted Variable"

Postby MrAsmodeus on Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:44 am

It would seem that if anything Kin realized that most people would not just buy and wear one boot when you have two feet. Or.. you can't interrupt/rewrite a thought already in progress.

The whole thing about targeting the individual players with holes just doesn't jibe tho. he wants to obliterate himself and his fellow teammates, destroying reality is the means to an end, not the actual tool, so to speak. He's not pulling the rug out from underneath them, he's vaporizing the whole house.
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Re: 12/13/11 "An Unaccounted Variable"

Postby Daize on Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:29 am

MrAsmodeus wrote:It would seem that if anything Kin realized that most people would not just buy and wear one boot when you have two feet. Or.. you can't interrupt/rewrite a thought already in progress.

The whole thing about targeting the individual players with holes just doesn't jibe tho. he wants to obliterate himself and his fellow teammates, destroying reality is the means to an end, not the actual tool, so to speak. He's not pulling the rug out from underneath them, he's vaporizing the whole house.

Thing is, PsiMax noticed the fault before kin started thinking. I agree with you on the targetting players. Nice metaphor. This would also rule out the "they're pinned to the wall" argument by the way.
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Re: 12/13/11 "An Unaccounted Variable"

Postby AgiHammerthief on Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:55 am

could it be they ours is the only pary that entered the maze before PsiMax did?
The Original off which all the others are just reflections (they are from our perspective anyways) so the "copy" PsiMax can't erase the originals, only equals.
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Re: 12/13/11 "An Unaccounted Variable"

Postby Buggrit on Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:56 am

Or it might be that she remembers enough of the conversation, and the one-boot thing suddenly snapped.

Anyways, it is obvious by now Minmax is on his undies. We hope.
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Re: 12/13/11 "An Unaccounted Variable"

Postby MetaDude on Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:32 pm

Daize wrote:
MrAsmodeus wrote:It would seem that if anything Kin realized that most people would not just buy and wear one boot when you have two feet. Or.. you can't interrupt/rewrite a thought already in progress.

The whole thing about targeting the individual players with holes just doesn't jibe tho. he wants to obliterate himself and his fellow teammates, destroying reality is the means to an end, not the actual tool, so to speak. He's not pulling the rug out from underneath them, he's vaporizing the whole house.

Thing is, PsiMax noticed the fault before kin started thinking. I agree with you on the targetting players. Nice metaphor. This would also rule out the "they're pinned to the wall" argument by the way.

As would the fact that holes are appearing in the walls...

It seems obvious to me that these holes are the start, not the end. PsiMax isn't trying eliminate Minmaxs, he isn't trying to eliminate parties - he's trying to eliminate EVERYTHING. He's not going to hope that gravity works in his favor, trying to get people to fall in. If he succeeds, even gravity will never have been.
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Re: 12/13/11 "An Unaccounted Variable"

Postby skythorn on Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:19 pm

I'd love to be able to say it's the AnyMug which is near unique. Nope. The close affection Kin and MinMax have developed despite their wildly different intellectual capabilities. Nope. I think its both simpler than this - and more unexpected.

While I like the idea of the 'unaccounted variable' being something to do with the adventure party's capabilities in their current configuration: I think it's that the party is physically separate (not hanging around together), are stapled to walls (and not moving) and Kin is Wicked Smart (possibly able to understand the few threads of what she can observe and infer from items being taken to oblivion) - so together there are three variables working as one to be one united & completely unexpected outcome - MinMax still exists.

Thought : Cant but speculate until Thunt returns - a deserved break from thinking breathing living sweating nothing but Goblins 24/7/52/7. (about 61 thousand hours)

Aside : Someone told me that to be an expert you need to expend 10 000 hours, Thunt has received his doctorate in delivery of Goblin Fan sustenance, he so deserves a break.
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Re: 12/13/11 "An Unaccounted Variable"

Postby Daize on Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:33 pm

skythorn wrote:I'd love to be able to say it's the AnyMug which is near unique. Nope. The close affection Kin and MinMax have developed despite their wildly different intellectual capabilities. Nope. I think its both simpler than this - and more unexpected.

While I like the idea of the 'unaccounted variable' being something to do with the adventure party's capabilities in their current configuration: I think it's that the party is physically separate (not hanging around together), are stapled to walls (and not moving) and Kin is Wicked Smart (possibly able to understand the few threads of what she can observe and infer from items being taken to oblivion) - so together there are three variables working as one to be one united & completely unexpected outcome - MinMax still exists.

Thought : Cant but speculate until Thunt returns - a deserved break from thinking breathing living sweating nothing but Goblins 24/7/52/7. (about 61 thousand hours)

Aside : Someone told me that to be an expert you need to expend 10 000 hours, Thunt has received his doctorate in delivery of Goblin Fan sustenance, he so deserves a break.


Ugh, as your post started out it excited me, but halfway.. PsiMax killed his own party a long time ago.. And they all 'exist', until they get (if they ever will) hit by PsiMax's nothingness...es..
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Re: 12/13/11 "An Unaccounted Variable"

Postby StaysUpTooLate on Thu Dec 15, 2011 6:58 pm

skythorn wrote:{snip}
Thought : Cant but speculate until Thunt returns - a deserved break from thinking breathing living sweating nothing but Goblins 24/7/52/7. (about 61 thousand hours)

Aside : Someone told me that to be an expert you need to expend 10 000 hours, Thunt has received his doctorate in delivery of Goblin Fan sustenance, he so deserves a break.


QFT!

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Re: 12/13/11 "An Unaccounted Variable"

Postby BinaryTears on Thu Dec 15, 2011 7:29 pm

SharesLoot wrote:Wait... Zimmy never entered the maze of many. She went to Gunnerkrigg court instead!
:shifty:



Ha ha ha... you caught me!
But you know, that Zimmy got her reality-bending and time traveling powers through being Obliviated from Goblins, right?
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Re: 12/13/11 "An Unaccounted Variable"

Postby tutenkharnage on Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:05 pm

There's one big problem about the holes. Anything that falls in them ceases to exist--including the floors and walls of the dungeon. Ergo, you can't ask someone else, "Did you just have some glowing holes appear near you?" because for you, the material in that space never existed, ergo the hole was always there. So you can't notice its sudden appearance, although you can notice the existing material break and make noises, as in today's comic, but I consider this akin to movies depicting sound in outer space. The artwork shows the wall and the floor "breaking," but the hole itself will have always been there. The popular theory that your memory simply fills the gap with "nothing" when something is erased from existence is literal at this point--the idea that "nothing" is where the floor was before PsiMax began his ritual matches the new reality. Which just makes it less likely to be noticed.
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Re: 12/13/11 "An Unaccounted Variable"

Postby TheExorcist on Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:07 pm

Wow....
Massive, major Kudos to the author of this story.
Yes, Author.
When you get a 5-page discussion spring up almost overnight over one plot twist, it's gone beyond whatever you usually call the maker of a common comic.
Speaks to the consistently high quality of the product that people speculate like this, too. The fans have come to expect something brilliant....
.... hmmm, no wonder the author took a break. 8)

Now, speaking of anomalies-
Fogarth is played by a woman?
Huh.

I came here today hoping that it would be revealed that "Dies Horribly" would turn out to have been in reference to a disastrous experiment in making cololrful clothing.
(oh , that anomaly?)

Technically, ALL of the crews are made up of player characters, so I think that's a no-go. I'd like to address all the others, but this thread is already bulging with so many ideas.
Mine is simple; it's their turn to win. That's why we are seeing this one, after all.

As for Psi-Max, ever wonder what he gave up for having god-like intelligence?
IMHO- wisdom.
My own wisdom ain't all that high, but I suspect that there is an item here that won't be destroyed unless it wants to be destroyed.
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Re: 12/13/11 "An Unaccounted Variable"

Postby BinaryTears on Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:54 am

Well that's interesting. Zimmy gets Obliviated from ever having existed in Goblins, and gets written into existence in another web comic. Not just from this point on, but she _always_ was there.
So that's how these 'holes' work.
Like I suggested in another thread, 'oblivion' isn't just an absence of existence. It's an absence of _rules_ about existence. I was thinking this meant Oblivion would therefore inevitably result in the springing forth of the 'infinite universes', each with their own set of self-consistent and self-perpetuating rules of existence... their Physics (and style and plot)... but it appears there's more to it than that.

Seems that if you drop something (or someone) into a hole through to Oblivion, it doesn't just cease to have ever existed in the Goblins' reality. It actually transfers to one of the other web comic realities. Where it has ALWAYS been.

PsyMax's clockwork software/logic really does have some bugs.
Hopefully the holes don't spread any further. That could make things really, really confusing for everyone.

I wonder which webcomic MinMax #180 and his clover sword will turn up in?
Then there's also our MinMax's pants and boots. Strange artifacts that will simply have been always lying around in random other web comics.
*God* I hope he doesn't pee into that hole.

Lets hope no one tries to work through the copyright ramifications. That would be even worse than taking the piss out of this reality and putting it somewhere else.
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Re: 12/13/11 "An Unaccounted Variable"

Postby knucklekraken on Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:05 am

I'm wondering if I've forgotten any other characters now. Was this comic the secret origin of... wait.

If what you're saying about Zimmy is true, was she unique to our reality somehow? I haven't seen any alternate versions of her, and we know that they don't all disappear simultaneously because both Minmax and Psimax still exist after Oblivimax fell in that hole. If she was indeed unique to our reality, perhaps another alternate version of her will appear later on somehow.
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Re: 12/13/11 "An Unaccounted Variable"

Postby Fulongamer on Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:47 am

Please....

The "variable" is that unlike all the other "realities", THIS reality is populated by the actual FMK PCs under the control of Player. Unless you just want to have a DM Herbert Snit-Fit and declare rocks fall, everybody dies (substituting Psy-Max's oblivion plan for "rocks fall") the PCs HAVE to be able to affect the outcome, and merely by existing they are the wrench in the works, as it were.

Psy-Max is attempting to solve his oblivion equation without accounting for the ultimate representation of Chaos Theory. (Players and their Characters)

DMs, Players, you know who you are, and you know who they are. Can I get an AMEN from the congrgation?
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Re: 12/13/11 "An Unaccounted Variable"

Postby Krulle on Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:08 am

BinaryTears wrote:Actually, the thing that really makes me sad is knowing we won't see any more of Zimmy, the fourth member of our party. She was hot.

YOU are the unaccounted variable! YOU (and Lunamatic) are apparently the only ones to remember Zimmy...

BTW, IDK about your tastes, but Zimmy is not anywhere near my likings.
But, taste is taste and not a point for discussion.
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