Meittron--Can't Torquemada Anything

[raoullefere]

Sorry. I love that phrase, and I simply had to use it, given a chance.

Of course, the first thing that came to my mind after seeing this page was a blank—I could not for the life of me remember the name of the thing your Torquemada has in his hand, and I do know what it is, and where he's about to shove it.

Personally, I think the smokestacks work better than almost anything else you could have drawn. A very powerful image that gets right to the point with the dialogue overlaid. I'll make a suggestion—if you ever re-do this page, move the inquisitor up closer to the 'camera' so we can't see his face. He seems to be leering at us, and I don't think that fits the theme of the page. In fact, I'd put Christ's face in shadow, too, since this is a mystery man Sammael's telling us about. We'd still 'get it,' and the page would be more unified. That being said, you draw a very good Sam Kinison Christ.

So, while Sammy's been labeled 'The Devil,' his dad's been going about for about two thousand years being the (or 'a') 'real' devil, taking out his hurt feelings on us all? That would make Meittron very, very human, I suppose. Perhaps a 'lie down with dogs' sort of occurrence.

Be a scream if he turned out to be a certain beleaguered out-of-work politician now, but you probably don't share my views on this. Besides, I think the guy's too old.

[tensix]

Be a scream if he turned out to be a certain beleaguered out-of-work politician now, but you probably don't share my views on this. Besides, I think the guy's too old.

That would be pretty hysterical. Doesn't quite fit, though, if we're thinking about the same gent. My best (or at least most logical) guess places him in the mid east somewhere, though that would be kind of obvious and not very dramatic.

Also, panels 2 and 4 reminded me of this, and I can't stop giggling now.

[Adam Black]

Grief and heartbreak makes even the best of us into fools, and Meittron is no exception. Unfortunately, god-like powers tend to make one's mistakes more earth-shaking.

I'm already getting a lot of questions about today's page, both from email and an IM conversation, so I should spell some things out right away:

1. The Jews didn't kill Jesus.

This misconception is partly my fault. When you say "God's Chosen People", the Jews immediately spring to mind. However, it's clear to anyone who has read the Gospels that it was indeed the Romans who killed Jesus--the Jews of the time (e.g. The Pharisees) just greased the wheels of the inevitable.

Keep in mind: When I say "Chosen People" in this comic, I'm not referring specifically to the Jews. I'm referring to the offspring of Adam and Eve. As the book of Genesis suggests, their children took wives elsewhere. These wives were, of course, among the humans who were already on the Earth at the time.

As time progressed, the Chosen People interbred with the rest of humanity to the point where their lineage was difficult to trace exactly. And so, while the Jews refer to themselves as God's Chosen People, there is also some Chosen People lineage in other breeds of humanity as well. Quite possibly even some of the Romans carried that blood around the time of the Crucifixion.

2. The Jews didn't bring the Holocaust upon themselves by crucifying Jesus.

I hope that the first point makes this point easier to understand. Keep in mind that no one deserved what punishment they received in any panel of today's page. The Jews didn't deserve Egyptian slavery in panel 1, Jesus didn't deserve crucifixion in panel 2, Jews and Muslims didn't deserve torture in panel 3, and no one deserved World War II.

But these things happened nonetheless. Why? Why do we go through history doing these things to each other?

It's because of who we are and where we really come from.

3. If God didn't create the majority of the human race, then who did?

Rainbow answered this question for you in the beginning of Issue Four. I'll go into it a little more in the next issue or two. Thanks for your patience.

In conclusion: If you've got a beef with today's page, let me know! I'm not referring to the two posts above this one, per se, because they're not indicitave of the feedback I've been getting so far.

[raoullefere]

I had already guessed we were all Xel'dum's (did I spell it right?) 'children.' And anyone with any sense reading the accounts knows that the Romans killed Jesus—the idea that "the Jews made them do it" is a prime example of the victors doing the writing. To believe otherwise is to accept a Nuremberg Defense of the whole thing with the nice addition that the 'orders' came from people who weren't even in charge. The Romans killed Jesus just like they killed Vercingetorix and countless others. Really good at killing and building, the Romans were.

Yes, 'Chosen People' is a term that reels under the burden of the loads placed on it. Maybe "Line he Engendered''? Which seems to be closer to the truth. They could be 'the Engendered,' then. But that may be too close to 'Indigini.'

[Adam Black]

You got it, pretty much. Except the spelling on Xel'Duum.

I'm getting a lot of feedback from today's page--so much that I should've started work about 2 hours ago, but haven't had the chance.

Funny thing:

All of the negative response has come from American Christians. All of the positive response has come from Jews, non-Americans, and lapsed Christians and Atheists.

I say it all the time, but it bears repeating: Locus Is An Experiment. And, apparently, it's an intersting gauge on people's thoughts and beliefs.

Did I tell you guys yet that this particular plot point is the one that got this comic killed back in the mid-90s, when I first did it? I can't recall--I'm still waking up, to be honest.

My publisher at the time was a devout Mormon, and he wanted nothing to do with this comic once he saw the "God is endlessly reincarnated in human form--sometimes as Very Bad People" schtick. I sent him an email last year, in fact--I'd found him again via a Google search. He never replied.

I'm curious to see how many readers I lose over this. I'll miss them, but to be honest, they'd just end up leaving anyway, once I get down to the real nitty-gritty of how and why Xel'Duum created the human race. There are some people who are going to be very unhappy with the fact that our God is really a Goddess, and not a very nice one at that.

[SuedodeuS]

I had already guessed we were all Xel'dum's (did I spell it right?) 'children.' And anyone with any sense reading the accounts knows that the Romans killed Jesus—the idea that "the Jews made them do it" is a prime example of the victors doing the writing. To believe otherwise is to accept a Nuremberg Defense of the whole thing with the nice addition that the 'orders' came from people who weren't even in charge. The Romans killed Jesus just like they killed Vercingetorix and countless others. Really good at killing and building, the Romans were.

Well, not quite a case of the victors writing history. I think it's more that early Christians were under the rule of the Romans, so of course they'd cast them in a favorable light ("They were simply keeping the peace and tradition - the Jews are to blame" as opposed to "Those asshole Romans crucified God. Like, what the fuck?").

As for the art, I think showing Meittron's face on Jesus and the inquisitor was actually a good idea. The former shows just how much suffering he was going through (hard to do without showing the look of agony and betrayal on his face), the latter how sadistic/crazy he has become. Oh, and until they are named otherwise in the comic, I'm going to refer to (or at least think of) his Chosen People as the Eloi, simply due to the gospels saying Jesus' last words were "Eloi, eloi, lama sabachthani?" While this apparently meant "My god, my god, why have you forsaken me?" it would be interesting if he were actually asking his children why they had forsaken him.

EDIT: Don't worry about the angry people. I suspect a great many of them didn't actually read the comic in the first place (seriously, it's about a half-succubus who's father regularly consults with the devil, and it's advertised as featuring Boobs, Blood, and Bad Language), as such people have a habit of finding out about something through word of mouth and then attempting a crusade to bring it down.

[Adam Black]

it would be interesting if he were actually asking his children why they had forsaken him.

Damn, man...that's a good idea.

As for the panels today: I originally had them all planned out as silhouettes, but I decided against it. I wanted the suffering to be crystal clear, because this is what we do to each other. And we really need to stop.

[Melvar]

EDIT: Don't worry about the angry people. I suspect a great many of them didn't actually read the comic in the first place (seriously, it's about a half-succubus who's father regularly consults with the devil, and it's advertised as featuring Boobs, Blood, and Bad Language), as such people have a habit of finding out about something through word of mouth and then attempting a crusade to bring it down.

They always seem to be the kind whose faith is a pushover due to their own lack of knowledge, disallowing them to trust their judgement, which they instead project onto others and try to end all freedom in the name of security (of their faith or otherwise). ☠

As for the panels today: I originally had them all planned out as silhouettes, but I decided against it. I wanted the suffering to be crystal clear, because this is what we do to each other. And we really need to stop.

You have used Spook as your mouthpiece then. I’m not sure this is acceptable. Not that I disagree with you, in fact, in this, I heartily agree. It’s the way of publishing it that I :-S .

[Adam Black]

Spook does tend to say a lot of things that are on my mind. But he's always been that way.

[jeffc]

Adam,

Congrats. For me, you've made Locus the best comic ever with today's issue. I've always subscribed to a definition of God as "everything." And this immediately reminds me of the Steve Buscemi/bartender exchange in Desperado; "He told that stranger everything."/"Everything?" the bartender asked.

Anyway, I personally contemplate that "everything" is far more twisted than most can imagine. So now I'm intrigued to see how the Meittron storyline unfolds but feel free to return to boobs and blood at anytime.

[RayvenWulf]

I'm curious to see how many readers I lose over this. I'll miss them, but to be honest, they'd just end up leaving anyway, once I get down to the real nitty-gritty of how and why Xel'Duum created the human race. There are some people who are going to be very unhappy with the fact that our God is really a Goddess, and not a very nice one at that.

And If they go then they weren't true fans to begin with. I say the same of anyone who continues to bash Laurell K Hamilton and the way the Anita Blake series has gone after she got the ardeur but STILL by the books and then fine time to bitch and moan about the book, the characters etc. Personally I like the page, but then I left Christianity behind me over 10 years ago. If you can't see your faith poked at and laugh along, you are taking it and yourself much too seriously.Besides t man made a deal with the Devil. They knew this coming in. If they didn't see that sooner or later something else that might smack the face of Christianity that is their fault. And I swear if anyone hasn't gotten panel four then they need to take middle school history again. Love this comic from the moment I found it and short of you ditching it there is nothing that's going to change my mind on it.

[Morach]

If Meittron reincarnated into who I think he did in the last panel, I have to wonder what was going through his mind as his end was near? More to think about is where did he go after that incarnation died? One thing I like about this particular chapter is how it really makes you think about all sorts of topics, even those that most wouldn't normally think about(or want to think about). I'm curious about one thing though, what was Sammael originally punished for?

[Max320]

Oh, and until they are named otherwise in the comic, I'm going to refer to (or at least think of) his Chosen People as the Eloi, simply due to the gospels saying Jesus' last words were "Eloi, eloi, lama sabachthani?" While this apparently meant "My god, my god, why have you forsaken me?" it would be interesting if he were actually asking his children why they had forsaken him.

If what you said is true, than this word "sabachthani" should be written like this "zanachtini".
Of course, the way you chose to write it is quite interesting, because "Zabachtani" means, in a way "sacrificed me".

Also, about the "Eloi, eloi" thing...
Eloi(Or elohai, whatever you spell it in english), as long as it's not written eli, means a plural, which, according to some very weird people, means that the ones who created us humans, and have been interacting with us ever since, are aliens(There's a book about the subject... This it's name was "Chariots of the gods" or something similar...)

If Meittron reincarnated into who I think he did in the last panel, I have to wonder what was going through his mind as his end was near? More to think about is where did he go after that incarnation died? One thing I like about this particular chapter is how it really makes you think about all sorts of topics, even those that most wouldn't normally think about(or want to think about). I'm curious about one thing though, what was Sammael originally punished for?

If sammael is indeed the same as the morning star, or the light bringer, or Lucifer, then he was cast down because he rebelled against the word of god.
By angel terms, he developed free will, something that, if i remember correctly, was not given to them in the first place...
Funny thing how you get all the knowledge in the world, but can't choose how to use it...


Now, here's a funny little story i heard from someone who heard it from someone who heard it from someone who knew hitler before he "turned"
supposedly, one of hitler's grandparents was jewish...
The jews also have a saying, that, translated, sounds a bit like this:
"Your greatest enemy will rise from your ranks."
Literally, it means that the person bent on hurting you the most will be a close friend or a family member(Or, if we look at racial scales, someone from the same race).
Recently, it was revealed that after Mahmud Ahmadenijad was born, his mom(A jew by every jewish standard) converted to islam, and apparently, Whenever a family changes their faith, they always act with incredible hatred towards the previous faith they were following, which would explain why he's such a turd...

*Inhales deeply*
Damn that was lotsa work...

Also, about the comic:
Great stuff.

[Adam Black]

Like I mentioned before, this page introduces the concept that killed the comic the first time I made it, back in the mid-90s. So I was pretty nervous about it.

I did receive some negative comments on it, but far, far fewer than I'd expected. In fact, the positive comments far outweighed the negative. Yesterday's page had the second-largest number of hits for a single page since this comic started. And it's even caused two new people to post on the forums!

I'm officially counting this page as a success.

So now I'm intrigued to see how the Meittron storyline unfolds but feel free to return to boobs and blood at anytime.

Thanks for joining the forums, man! The Meittron story will be unfolding more as time goes on, but slowly and kinda-sorta in the background. This comic is mainly about Locus and her Dad, which means it's also about Hampstead and the things he's trying to accomplish--since he's the one responsible for Locus' birth and all that.

Hampstead's goals are partly influenced by Meittron's story, so we'll be seeing more of it here and there. His goals are very influenced by Xel'Duum's story as well, so that's going to play a big part of future pages.

And I swear if anyone hasn't gotten panel four then they need to take middle school history again. Love this comic from the moment I found it and short of you ditching it there is nothing that's going to change my mind on it.

Welcome to you, too! Thanks for the kind words. As for people understanding panel four--I was more concerned as to whether they'd be able to decipher the art.

If Meittron reincarnated into who I think he did in the last panel, I have to wonder what was going through his mind as his end was near? More to think about is where did he go after that incarnation died? One thing I like about this particular chapter is how it really makes you think about all sorts of topics, even those that most wouldn't normally think about(or want to think about). I'm curious about one thing though, what was Sammael originally punished for?

In every generation of mankind, there's always one guy who makes a big, lasting impression (whether for good or ill is entirely beside the point). Moses, Julius Caesar, Constantine, Jesus, Genghis Khan, Mohammed, Torquemada, Hitler...and most of these guys usually end up being Meittron in disguise. So you have to ask yourself: who has made a huge, lasting impression since Hitler?

The answer is: no one, really. Which means Meittron hasn't reincarnated yet.

Note also that this page (I hope) shows that Meittron's incarnations have become increasingly erratic and destructive ever since the crucifixion. Getting nailed to a big piece of wood isn't something that you forget (or forgive) easily. Mankind really screwed the pooch when they did that.

As for thinking--I like stories that get your imagination running wild, even if it means that there's a possibility that what you dream up is way better than what I end up showing you. It's worth the risk to me.

And Sammael...we'll get to that as soon as I can squeeze it in. But I can tell you now that it has something to do with identical succubus twins (not Silk and Eden), love, and the Ael.

Which brings us to our next quote:

If sammael is indeed the same as the morning star, or the light bringer, or Lucifer, then he was cast down because he rebelled against the word of god.
By angel terms, he developed free will, something that, if i remember correctly, was not given to them in the first place...

Essentially true, but (as they say) the Devil is in the details. You guys should trust the Bible as much as a Native American trusts American history books when they give the history of the Old West.

supposedly, one of hitler's grandparents was jewish...
The jews also have a saying, that, translated, sounds a bit like this:
"Your greatest enemy will rise from your ranks."
Literally, it means that the person bent on hurting you the most will be a close friend or a family member(Or, if we look at racial scales, someone from the same race).
Recently, it was revealed that after Mahmud Ahmadenijad was born, his mom(A jew by every jewish standard) converted to islam, and apparently, Whenever a family changes their faith, they always act with incredible hatred towards the previous faith they were following, which would explain why he's such a turd...

And why do we do that to each other? Why do we look for any excuse (beliefs, religions, skin colors, nation borders, et cetera) to hate and kill each other? Why does every religion simultaneously have a "do unto others" verse and a "here's when it's okay to kill someone" verse in its text?

That's what I'm really getting at with this comic. Meittron's story is just the tip of that iceberg.

I've been writing and rewriting this story on and off for about fifteen years now, and it's grown so big that it took me almost five years just to figure out where to start. I ended up starting with Locus (obviously), but as she runs around and kicks more asses, she'll slowly step into the Big Picture.

So I hope you guys stick around for the next five or six years, at least. There's a lot of story left to tell.

[Braidboy]

So being the busy bee I am I haven't gotten to read my Locus. I go to get caught up (not as far behind as I thought!) and BAM! You hit me in the face with this solid gold nugget. Man... To think you praised my "sad romance" page at the dojo. Dude, THIS page is not only a master stroke of comics (words and pictures working together elegantly and economically), but it also takes tons of cool ideas and KING KONG BALLS!!! ha ha.

Not that I ever worry too much about offending people, but I can only imagine the hate mail. PM me some! We'll have a laugh about it!

Anyway, I loved it. This comic continually proves that it's far more than boobs, blood, and bad language. Not that there's a damn thing wrong with any of that, but there's seriously meat on this comic's bones. I can't wait to see where ya go next.

P.S. I consider myself a Christian and I don't think that there's anything offensive about the comic. I wish more folks could love God AND loosen up. Sheesh.

[SteinarB]

Excellent work, Adam. Really excellent work. Maybe this is a knee jerk atheist reaction on my part (a sort of "hah! Take that you believer types" thing), but I enjoyed this twist every bit as much as I enjoyed Garth Ennis' take on God in Preacher. Very well done.

Now maybe I'm being hypocritical here when I say that anyone who has a problem with this kind of thing in a comic should take a few deep breaths and calm down before they work themselves up into a religious coronary. Maybe I would react the same way if someone said something as unexpected about any of my cherished beliefs (and if I find I have any then I'll be sure to let you all know ). I suspect I will never stop being surprised by how some people can be big fans of a work of fantasy, but as soon as the world of that particular work of _fiction_ makes some assumptions about their religion with which they do not agree it suddenly becomes the worst thing to ever have been put down on a page. That's people for ya. Most will claim open-mindedness and berate others for not being so until they themselves are asked to actually put their money where their mouth is, at which point they should apparently be excempt from having the same expectations applied to them. Go figure.

Or maybe I'm just getting a bit too cynical about people in my old age. In any event, excellent work again. Can't wait to see what twists you have planned for us next.

-SteinarB

[Adam Black]

Yeah, there's a guy who started up another thread this morning and basically said he liked the comic up until this point. Judging by the content of the post itself, I'd say he identifies himself as Christian. I'm guessing American Christian; quite possibly a Baptist of one flavor or another.

I have to say that his sudden anger confused me. I'm showing all sorts of Bad Things (tm) in this comic--things which, technically, will send you straight to Hell if you believe every single verse of the Old and New Testaments. I've got profanity, wanton violence, nudity, sex out of wedlock...and I won't even count how many times one of these characters has taken the Lord's name in vain. Hell, man, that's breaking one of the Ten Commandments! And even the most "Oh, the Old Testament doesn't count anymore" Christians still adhere to the Ten Commandments.

In fact, being a fan of this comic will doom you to Eternal Fiery Punishment. If you're a Christian and enjoy this comic, you are technically going to Hell. (sorry, Raven)

But none of those sins bothered him. It wasn't until panel four of page 17 that he found it suddenly offensive and against his beliefs. Of course, it's his choice to decide what he does and doesn't choose to follow from the Bible, but it sure does make it difficult to know when you've crossed The Line.

How am I supposed to know which rules are being shrugged off and which are instant triggers for internet shouting matches? I'm not pissing off people on purpose here. It's just that I really can't guess which rules and commandments are being adhered to and which others are being ignored.

When it comes down to it, folks, remember this: It's just a comic.

More than that: It's just a comic I'm pretty much making for myself. Just to have a little fun and get all this shit out of my head.

If you (and I mean "you in general") like it, great! If not, hey, thanks for checking it out.

[Adam Black]

Aaaand...it looks like all the hollerin' in that other thread got worked out!

I'm always glad when that happens.

[Melvar]

If what you said is true, than this word "sabachthani" should be written like this "zanachtini".
Of course, the way you chose to write it is quite interesting, because "Zabachtani" means, in a way "sacrificed me".

Also, about the "Eloi, eloi" thing...
Eloi(Or elohai, whatever you spell it in english), as long as it's not written eli, means a plural, which, according to some very weird people, means that the ones who created us humans, and have been interacting with us ever since, are aliens(There's a book about the subject... This it's name was "Chariots of the gods" or something similar...)

Careful with romanization of Hebrew (or Aramaic, as might be the case). There are maybe half a dozen popular schemes to describe Hebrew writing in Latin letters, and none of them can be considered “the correct one”. They also tend to be very incompatible because the Latin script is not well suited to the job and the language itself has developed over time.
That said, Wikipedia puts it this way:

The phrase could be either:
• אלי אלי למה עזבתני [ēlî ēlî lamâ azavtanî] (Hebrew);
• אלי אלי למא שבקתני [ēlî ēlî lamâ šabaqtanî]; or
• אלהי אלהי למא שבקתני [ēlâhî ēlâhî lamâ šabaqtanî]
The Aramaic word šabaqtanî is based on the verb šabaq, 'to allow, to permit, to forgive, and to forsake', with the perfect tense ending -t (2nd person singular: 'you'), and the object suffix -anî (1st person singular: 'me').

[raoullefere]

Just read Monday, 10/19 comic.

Oh, no! Say it ain't him, Adam. Oh, no way does he rate like the people in the "Where's Meittron" strip.

Sigh. Ah well, get on with the Crowleyin' (Do as you will). I'll hang in there.

[Adam Black]

It ain't him.

[Morach]

It's Bill Gates isn't it? Just kidding(bad jokes,I'm full of them). If Meittron hasn't reincarnated yet, he might be laying in wait until someone is about to be born(just a guess though).

[raoullefere]

Whew. Although it did occur to me that, if it was Bin Laden, he has some nice flower pots. Not my idea of the man.

Wait, you're toying with me.

Seriously, it occurs to me this happened 20 years or so ago. Or however old Anna is now. That may alter my ability to predict (and naturally, I can't just wait until Wednesday). Of course, Sammael and the like may be able to see---the Future, all the way to The Year 2000!

I like the "Child of Fire" reference, incidentally. Seriously cool.

[Kreox]

I like the "Child of Fire" reference, incidentally. Seriously cool.

I like the child of clay reference... You know.. Clayman... The Neverhood... Whatever... Nevermind...

[Adam Black]

The children of clay/children of fire reference is from the Koran, which states that angels and djinn (including Sammael, who's known as Iblis in that book) are created from smokeless fire. According to the Muslims, Iblis' sin against God was that he refused to bow before Adam and Eve, because he saw them as lesser beings.

The Devil in the Koran is actually a much more 3-dimensional character than the Devil in the Bible. From what little I've read, that is. In fact, in the original version of this comic, I called him Iblis instead of Sammael. I finally chose the latter because it fit better with the naming convention I ended up giving to the whole Host.

I really need to find the time to sit down and read the whole Koran at some point. Right now, all I know is what I Googled in regards to the Devil.