The Other Guy

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The Other Guy

Postby VictorK on Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:31 am

Mike Capuano, the loser of the MA-Sen primary to Martha Coakley:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wTE4e4sSXU&feature=player_embedded

But, no excuses. Capuano would've been a better candidate but there's no excuse for not getting a Democrat elected to national office in Massachusetts.
"The gods are not all powerful, they cannot erase the past."

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Re: The Other Guy

Postby carsonfire on Sat Jan 16, 2010 1:03 pm

Heh... "Coakley is a terrible candidate who is going to loose [sic] to a nude model"

To be fair to Coakley, Capuano here is engaging in the easy liberal sport of haranguing evil corporatists at a hearing. As Capuano admits, he doesn't "really have a question", he's simply speechifying, and there's not much anybody can do about it. 99% of what he's saying could be an outright lie, and everybody has to sit there and listen to the whole thing. Note that many times throughout his harangue, he has to interject "in my opinion", because you can't just say things are illegal if they're not.

Campaigning is something altogether different. Instead of putting somebody else on the hotseat, Capuano would be on the hotseat, and he would be held more responsible for those things that are just "his opinion". You have to realize that makes a difference. He wouldn't be able to just dominate five minutes uninterrupted to rail against easy targets.

On the other hand, to be fair to Capuano, it *is* pretty amazing at just how bad Coakley is:

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2 ... 025403.php
Dan Rea: Would Barack Obama be in if this thing was not this close?

Martha Coakley: Umm...it's hard to know, I think that he is welcome in Massachusetts and I'm sure everybody is happy to see a president come.

Rea: 62 to 36

Coakley: But I think probably if it weren't so close Rudy Giuliani would be here and besides he's a Yankee fan. (Laughter.) I just want people to know. (Laughter.)

Rea: Uhhh, yeah, but now Scott Brown has Curt Schilling...

Coakley: ...and another Yankee fan.

Rea: Schilling?

Coakley: Yes.

Rea: Curt Schilling a Yankee fan?

Coakley: Nooo, alright I'm wrong on my, I'm wrong.

Rea: The Red Sox's great pitcher of the bloody sock?

Coakley: Well, he's not there anymore.


From Pete Schilling's blog:

http://38pitches.weei.com/sports/boston ... of-things/
But never, and I mean never, could anyone ever make the mistake of calling me a Yankee fan. Well, check that, if you didn’t know what the hell is going on in your own state maybe you could….
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Re: The Other Guy

Postby carsonfire on Sat Jan 16, 2010 1:15 pm

Heh... looking around, I see Capuano had all the right endorsements...

Pelosi Endorses Capuano For Kennedy's Seat
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MA7xsFnAse4

King of Pot Voting for Mike Capuano US Senate
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_p_Oc7p6VQ

By the way, after seeing that phrase bannered at YouTube several times by excited liberal fans -- "CEOs: NO ONE TRUSTS YOU ANYMORE". Can you see how meaningless that is? National trust isn't an issue for CEOs, only the trust of the board of directors. Who is national trust an issue for? Congressmen like Capuano, and polls often show THAT trust to be at rock bottom. So we have a representative of a body the nation doesn't much trust bloviating for the cameras about something that doesn't really mean anything to get people excited about something they don't really know anything about.

Yup, that's your man! :D
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Re: The Other Guy

Postby carsonfire on Sat Jan 16, 2010 1:25 pm

The more you get to know Capuano... here he is ranting at the head of the FAA. That seems to be his specialty, the angry rant. Here are some of the responses:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ULaK2ZDOM4
Grandstanding.
...
I'm apalled to see a witness treated to such little respect from a loudmouth taking cheap shots from the bully pulpit. The ATC failures Mr. Capuano references were decades in the making; meanwhile, the same controllers posting this video gleefully boast of their own errors while the FAA runs on a series of stopgap funding measures due to a dispute over salaries. The "gentleman" from Massachusetts knows this. He's no populist watchdog; He is a bully, a liar, and a coward.
...
This asinine temper tantrum should be directed at lawmakers. What a disrespectful joke.
...
what a dick


Does he have anything to his credit besides ranting? Of course, for a senator, I suppose that actually *is* a qualification, isn't it?
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Re: The Other Guy

Postby VictorK on Sat Jan 16, 2010 1:35 pm

carsonfire wrote:Can you see how meaningless that is? National trust isn't an issue for CEOs, only the trust of the board of directors.


I think that if the CEO wants you to continue buying their products or putting your money in their banks trust might not be a bad thing to have.

Who is national trust an issue for? Congressmen like Capuano, and polls often show THAT trust to be at rock bottom.


I would humbly suggest, and I suspect this to fall on deaf ears since your populism only seems to go as far as it needs to in order to beat Democrats and then it's back to business as usual (which makes you a perfect analogue for the corporate masters of the tea parties), that the reason people don't trust Democrats in Congress is because they aren't willing to take Capuano's stance of actually reining in the architects of so many people's misery.
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Re: The Other Guy

Postby carsonfire on Sat Jan 16, 2010 2:37 pm

VictorK wrote:I would humbly suggest, and I suspect this to fall on deaf ears since your populism only seems to go as far as it needs to in order to beat Democrats and then it's back to business as usual (which makes you a perfect analogue for the corporate masters of the tea parties), that the reason people don't trust Democrats in Congress is because they aren't willing to take Capuano's stance of actually reining in the architects of so many people's misery.


Many see people like Capuano as being precisely aligned with the architects of misery. That's why people like Capuano tend to be the loudest ranters.

I don't see how any of those CEOs did anything to me. I used to be a good liberal and was MAD at people for having more money than me. I grew up and learned that people having more money than me in no way affects me. Trust in those CEOs is a matter for their customers and their shareholders. But I do see how the policies championed by the likes of Barney Frank and Nancy Pelosi negatively impact the economy overall. Obama, Frank, Reid, Pelosi, and now Capuano -- with friends like these, the poor don't need enemies. Unlike irrational hatred over somebody else having more money than me, disastrous liberal policies *do* have an effect on my life and the life of my friends and family. You ruin lives, and never take any responsibility, but prefer to point fingers at everybody else: Republicans, CEOs, pharmaceutical companies, fast food restaurants, wombats, coat racks, dryer lint. If it exists, it is more to blame for your disastrous policies than you ever will be.

And it's not because you are "Democrats", as I have continued supported various Democrats for years after leaving the party. It's the leftist influence that the party leaders have allowed to dominate that makes the party currently unfit. The Democrat party that I once belonged to was already waning when I quit, and is now almost completely wiped away by ideological extremists. You are the people I used to listen to, raging from the back of the auditorium, that our platform should be "FREE HOUSES FOR EVERYBODY". That was in the 80s. The concept of "free houses for everybody", over time, is what led to the mortgage disaster today. Despite the worthiness of the sentiment, it cannot be translated into real policy without disastrous results, a steep bill for pretending that reality can simply be ignored in favor of what we would like to have happen, emotionally.
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Re: The Other Guy

Postby carsonfire on Sat Jan 16, 2010 3:23 pm

By the way, it's too late even for the Lautenberg gambit, isn't it? Or is it? That was when Democrats simply yanked an inconvenient candidate whose campaign also blew up in his face, and replaced him with another, more viable candidate, nearly at the last minute, in order to protect what also should have been an easily-held seat. The excuse was that the switch somehow preserved democracy by keeping the race competitive, but it was so close to the end that there was literally no time for the challenger to campaign against the replacement candidate -- allowing the Democrat replacement a cost-free, debate-free cakewalk into office.

I can almost see that happening by Monday -- the party yanks Coakley out and puts in this Capuano character at the last minute who reverses the flow of the election simply by accusing Brown of an endless number of "crimes" (in his opinion). It's admittedly difficult to fight back against a shameless liar, especially in just a period of a day or two. The excuses would be just as paltry, but easy to make -- health care reform is just too important to hinge on an electoral accident, etc.
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Re: The Other Guy

Postby Dave.gillam on Sat Jan 16, 2010 7:10 pm

VictorK wrote:I think that if the CEO wants you to continue buying their products or putting your money in their banks trust might not be a bad thing to have.
Can you name off the top of your head any CEOs? Most Americans cant. All they know is a company name. CEOs dont need public trust. The company might bt most are established enough to get by with minimal PR to overcome any hits from MSM or congress, who has for several YEARS Held minimal approval ratings.

I would humbly suggest, and I suspect this to fall on deaf ears since your populism only seems to go as far as it needs to in order to beat Democrats and then it's back to business as usual (which makes you a perfect analogue for the corporate masters of the tea parties), that the reason people don't trust Democrats in Congress is because they aren't willing to take Capuano's stance of actually reining in the architects of so many people's misery.

The problem is that dems have held congress for 3 years now. And held their lowest rati ngs during that time. In the archives here, we have the thread where the DEM held congress was significantly lower than Bush at his worst (9% approval against Bush's thirtysomething) And it hasnt improved too much since. The classic slogan is especially apt in the next election "Are you better off now than you were 4 years ago?" HELL NO. What changed? Democrats took control of congress. All this BS about Dem failure to lead, obstructionist repubs and such simply fails because its been nearly 4 YEARS of the same excuses for Democrat FAILURE!!!!!

Why are the Dems having such a hard time? Because they failed the whole of the nation and spiked us into ruin. The 10% Loony Left isnt enough to hold them viable, much less in control, and they havent even been able to appease these extremists. It takes a very special kind of incompetence to piss off everybody.
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Re: The Other Guy

Postby carsonfire on Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:06 pm

From FireDogLake:

http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/24502
Progressives, please help defeat Coakley

It is very important that progressives help defeat Coakley. Please read my explanation. The more power the folks in the Democratic Corporate Suck Up wing of the party gain, the more we will have to fight to make the party move to the left. I do not think that many progressive Democrats understand that putting such people as Coakley into power is worse than having a Republican in the seat. Just being in the Democratic Party does not and will not ensure a progressive agenda. Do you not see that? So, if you get her into the seat, what makes you think she will be any better than Lincoln, or Nelson, or Lieberman! It will, in fact, ensure that there will be NO progressive agenda. It was not the Republicans who failed us of late. It was the Democrats. We will never succeed as long as the Dem’s can talk liberal and vote corporate.

The idea that we do this to ’send a message’ is wrong. They know the message. The idea is to not support candidates who will not support our agenda. The idea is to not feed the very beast we are fighting. It is not the Party which we fight for, it is progressive ideas. Think about what the Dem’s have actually voted for in the last year. How much of it was really any different than the Republicans? We cannot just give the Dem’s power for power’s sake. You must please realize that, as in 1994, we will lose both houses of Congress if we do not stick to our principles. I beg you to see and understand this. I am 59 years old and I saw Clinton sell out to corporate power. He managed to stay in power but he destroyed the Democratic Party. Do Not Let It Happen Again!

Just ask yourself why you vote for Democrats in the first place. It can’t be that you simply like the name.



If the leftists turn on Coakley, who does she have left?
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Re: The Other Guy

Postby VictorK on Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:55 am

That person is utterly deluded. Do they really think that the talking heads in Washington and the right wing noise machine is going to take a Coakley defeat as a victory for liberals? No, no no. There is no way to win in MA, by coming this close Brown has already done most of the damage and if he wins do the so-called progressives hoping for his victory really think that it's going to inspire Democrats to act more liberal?

I sympathize with the argument. Yes, Democrats have been caving on everything. Despite Dave's asinine assertion that Republicans have been 'frozen out' out of the negotiations on health care the Obama Administration and Democrats in Congress have bent over backwards trying to get Republican votes; their failure is not an indication that they didn't try to get Republican input. It's really a Republican health care bill in terms of its content, crafted to get conservative and Republican support, but running into the cynical calculation that instead of a good faith negotiation effort where Republicans might actually get things that they really want like tort reform it is better politically for them to hope for Democratic failure. So I understand where the commenter is coming from, Obama has completely and utterly failed in his first year.

But how does electing a /Republican/ send the right message to Democrats? It doesn't! It never has and it never will! I can't believe the people who say that they want health care, they like Obama, but they can't vote for Coakley. There are quite a few of them apparently in MA. Any chance at health care or a successful Obama presidency /dies/ if Brown gets elected. You think the Republicans and the conservatives haven't realized that? You think that Rush 'I hope he fails' Limbaugh hasn't realized that? We have precious few months before this Administration comes to an end and some assholes in MA who are as ignorant as fuck are going to hand them over to the people who want to tear down everything that they want accomplished. Sure, Coakley sucks. And if you really hate her, that's fine. You get to choose your representatives and there is no seat in government that one party or another is entitled to. Just don't vote for Brown (or not vote, as the case may be) with the moronic rationalization that you're helping the Democrats or Obama pass their agenda. That's idiot thinking, and I don't call many people idiots.
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Re: The Other Guy

Postby Casual Notice on Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:58 am

That's the funny thing about Dave's accurate "asinine assertion". What you see as Dems in office Kowtowing to Republicans in an honest effort to be bi-partisan is really a bunch of clueless pseudo-concessions being handed out without any consultation whatsoever. Like some idiot sitcom husband who buys his wife a washing machine for her birthday, the Dems have been just-deciding what conservatives (and moderates, and most of the country that isn't a liberal or a machine politician) want and then chewing on that as if it were an actual issue. Like the Grobdignagian marketing specialist in Life, the Universe, and Everything, they argue over whether we want state-managed healthcare that can be inserted nasally and then get surprised when we say the whole idea is bollocks.
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Re: The Other Guy

Postby carsonfire on Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:03 am

Casual Notice wrote:clueless pseudo-concessions


At *best*. In some cases, it's far worse -- a lie told to excuse the usual dirty back-room deals. Cynical Dems know their current crop of gullible supporters will reflexively accept any story that makes Republicans villains, so it's a great way to cover up their own habitual sleaze. I think today's younger Democrats don't understand that besides HillaryCare, there was also a trail of scandal that had been coming to a head in the 90s that finally dislodged Democrats as the default party of power.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_Office_Scandal
The Congressional Post Office scandal refers to the discovery of corruption among various Congressional Post Office employees and members of the United States House of Representatives, investigated 1991–1995, climaxing in the conviction of House Ways and Means Committee chairman Dan Rostenkowski (D-IL).

Initially an investigation by the United States Capitol Police into a single embezzlement charge against a single employee, evidence rapidly led to the inclusion of several other employees, before top Democrats in the House of Representatives moved to shut down the whole line of inquiry, despite protests from Frank Karrigan, chief of the Capitol Police.

A new investigation was started by the United States Postal Service, which eventually submitted a report which was held in silence by Speaker Thomas Foley (D-WA) until media reports of embezzlement and money laundering leaked out in 1992.

Following public outcry, the Democratic leaders of the House were forced to refer the matter to the Committee on House Administration, which started its own investigation.

That committee broke into two parts along party lines, the Democrats issuing a report saying the matter was closed, but the Republicans issuing a dissenting report including a number of unanswered questions and problems with the investigation.

The Republican charges were largely ignored until July 1993, when the Congressional Postmaster Robert Rota pleaded guilty to three criminal charges, implicating Representatives Dan Rostenkowski (D-IL) and Joe Kolter (D-PA). They were accused of heading a conspiracy to launder Post Office money through stamps and postal vouchers.

Rostenkowski was convicted and sentenced to 18 months in prison, in 1995.

U.S. President Bill Clinton pardoned Rostenkowski in 2000.


"Following *public* outcry"... this wasn't a story that MOST of the media liked, because it didn't fit the prescribed party narrative. But if a scandal like this were to break again, today, with Democrats treating a government office like a bottomless barrel of free cash, Democrat leaders would blame it on Bush. Having the office at all was -- (drumroll, please) -- a concession to Republicans!!!

And VK would believe every word of it.
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Re: The Other Guy

Postby carsonfire on Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:28 am

Aha! Another "other guy" is emerging. Reading this round-up of predictions about what a Coakley loss would mean to Democrats, there seems to be a consensus that hadn't even occurred to me.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 0011702211

There seems to be general agreement that Dems won't be able to game the calendar well enough to get health care "reform" done if they lose vote #60, and that they won't be able to get away with delaying Brown. That leaves them with only one realistic option:

Hel-loooooo, Olympia!

They would have to go back to bargaining with the most liberal member(s) of the Republican party. Would today's Democrats be sleazy enough to buy a Republican?
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Re: The Other Guy

Postby Dave.gillam on Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:52 am

Some fun quotes:
MARY BETH CAHILL Manager of Sen. John Kerry's presidential campaign; former chief of staff to Sen. Edward M. Kennedy
Right now, people can see the banks benefiting, but positive change in their lives seems to be far in the future even as the economy improves.
The economy's improving? How come NONE of the numbers nor economists seem to be agreeing with this delusion?

ED ROGERS Chairman of BGR Group; White House staffer to Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush
Democrats should learn from this that the voters haven't followed in their lurch to the left, and Republicans need to remember that we shouldn't continue to rely on Democratic self-destruction.
Both very true

ROBERT J. BLENDON Professor of health policy and political analysis at Harvard's School of Public Health and its Kennedy School of Government
But the shocker is that about half of the voters in Massachusetts also oppose the health reform bill proposed by President Obama and congressional Democrats (47 percent favor, 48 percent oppose).
Polls consistently show half (or more) of the whole nation opposes Obamacare. Why is this a "shocker"? Because Dems are idiots.
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