Pregnant?!

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Postby Tarvok on Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:34 pm

oenone wrote:
Tarvok wrote:Ya know, it's not NEARLY so hard to avoid such "accidents" as some folks like to believe.


your ability to avoid "accidents" depends on access and education.


That, and the ability to keep your pants on.
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Postby oenone on Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:59 am

Tarvok wrote:
oenone wrote:
Tarvok wrote:Ya know, it's not NEARLY so hard to avoid such "accidents" as some folks like to believe.


your ability to avoid "accidents" depends on access and education.


That, and the ability to keep your pants on.


abstinence only education doesn't work.
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Postby Tuitsuro on Sun Nov 11, 2007 11:12 pm

No but castration does! *chop chop*

I think the education bit misses the point entirely. One side doesn't want people to have sex until they're 'ready', the other side wants people to have sex when they feel like it. Both sides are really extremes when you get right down to it. But here's the problem; on the one extreme, you have very few people having sex because it's morally 'restricted' and absolutely no abortions. That goes against personal freedom and liberties. But on the other side, you have the end result being discarded in the name of convenience. One side calls the other side murderers, the other side says they're religious fanatics and facists. In the end both sides want to respect human rights, just in different ways, they just have different views of what human rights are.
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Postby Tarvok on Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:05 pm

The real problem is the fact that we are not allowed (by government and society) to be "ready" when we're ready... when it is possible that most people could easily be ready when they're ready. One day, I'll elaborate on this in an essay in my blog, but check out the "For Moralists" part of this page for my inspiration.
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Postby Sage Blackthorn on Tue Nov 13, 2007 2:20 pm

Tuitsuro wrote:No but castration does! *chop chop*


That's a bit extreme too. A Vasectomy works just as well.

I think the education bit misses the point entirely. One side doesn't want people to have sex until they're 'ready', the other side wants people to have sex when they feel like it.........
>---snip---<
.........One side calls the other side murderers, the other side says they're religious fanatics and facists. In the end both sides want to respect human rights, just in different ways, they just have different views of what human rights are.


This really is an over-simplification of the issue. Statistics on Abstinance Only programs shows an extremely high failure rate. Something like 85-95% of those teenagers and young adults who join the programs and sign an Abstinence Pledge break that vow within a year. Why? Because thats all the programs teaches: Abstinence Only. It fails to address alternatives to preventing unplanned pregnancies, such as contraceptives, condoms, dealing with human instinct, reproductive urges, and hormone levels, and getting intimate with your partner in ways OTHER than intercourse. All because these Abstinence Only programs are religiously based, and all those other options conflict with said religions' moral code.

The other side of the issue is not one of "have sex whenever you want." That whole Free-Love group is a different issue entirely. The opposition to the Abstinence Only programs is one that presents ALL the alternatives for avoiding unplanned pregnancies and makes people aware of there success and failure rates and says "Here's the information, make an informed decision". It teaches not only Abstinence, but when that fails, it teaches about contraceptives, condoms, encourages masturbation to relieve the physical urge to have sex, explains the physicality and psychology that drives human reproduction (aka Why otherwise intelligent people who don't want children yet have unprotected sex and get pregnant) and how to deal with them, and presents abortion as a viable option should the condom break or birth control pill not work properly.

And Tarvok has a valid point that young people could be made ready to raise a family at a much earlier age. It is only because our society extends childhood past puberty for various reasons that they are not "made ready" when they are physically ready. Does anyone realize how redicules it is not to keep the social developement of a child in step with the pace of their physical developement? And one of the biggest problems is not a question of is someone physically ready to raise a children in this day and age. It is are they financially secure enough to provide for a child?

I know I swore I would never have a child until I could give it a good home, make sure it was fed, clothed, sheltered and that at least I or my spouse was with it at all times. That means both of use having jobs where we earn enough to take time off to be with the child while the other is working AND still be able to cover all the bills. I swore to myself I would not let us become another welfare family nor would I contribute to the world's over population problem by having more than 2 children. In order to do that, one must learn how to deal with their biology and their instincts. Crude suppression of needs and desires is never very effective, and it can be harmful to a person in the long run. You must understand the causes, and channel your behaviour in such a way that your needs and desires are met while still attaining your goal of no unplanned pregnancies.

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Postby Marcos on Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:27 pm

Sage Blackthorn wrote:
Tuitsuro wrote:No but castration does! *chop chop*


That's a bit extreme too. A Vasectomy works just as well.


No, it doesn't. Vasectomies have about an 0.15% failure rate as a method of birth control; castration has a 0% failure rate.
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Postby Sage Blackthorn on Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:08 pm

Marcos wrote:No, it doesn't. Vasectomies have about an 0.15% failure rate as a method of birth control; castration has a 0% failure rate.


Ya' know, I can live with a 0.15% chance. I can live with a less than 1% chance of alot of things in this life. Particularly in this case when in the rare instance that .15% chance happens, having an abortion is currently still a viable option.

Figure if 1% chance is 1 in 100. 0.1% is what? 1 in 1000? so a 0.15% chance is 15 instances in 10,000. I'll take those odds. Especially if they are combined with my partner being on birth control medication and the use of a condom all together. It's far more likely that I'm gonna get mugged at the ATM by work. And in the instance THAT happens, I'm prepared to deal with it.

If there is one thing I've learned in life it's that there are always choices. When someone tells you that you can only choose between options A, B, or C, there are usually options D-Z that they aren't telling you about becuase they can live with you choosing A,B, or C, but really don't want you to pick any of the others.

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Postby ninjax on Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:35 pm

I had a friend of mine whose parents both got a vasectomy and a hysterectomy...and they still ended up getting one more child (plus they've tried just about every contraceptive known to man, and they still ended up having six children.), and the only sure fire thing that worked was not having sex.

Anyway, I disagree with you on overpopulation, and it being a problem. I would say that underreproduction is a more serious and subtle problem that threatens humanity more than overpopulation.
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