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Postby Shatteredtower on Tue Nov 13, 2001 5:10 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by K A H:
<B> Like telling Josh Waitzkin how to improve his game? Fff. Hardly.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P> Hey, he's "only" an IM, you know. If I'd compared you to one of the FMs (I think it stands for F.I.D.E. Master), you'd have no idea to whom I was referring. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/smile.gif"><P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B> More like telling Keanu Reeves how to improve his acting.<P> Or it would be if he acted as a hobby. (And if he kept it to a hobby, he'd be doing <I>me</I> a favour....)</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Somewhere out there, my almost-ex-wife is grinding her teeth to hear you say that. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/biggrin.gif"><P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Still, you do raise a good point, and yes, I did ask people to say what they thought. Let me offer a defence of sorts, though.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I don't see that it's necessary, since this wasn't meant as an attack on your ability either as a musician or composer. It's just that something in it threw me off a bit while listening to it.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>There are a few reasons the pieces feature short phrases used often, a feature of which I was conscious and wary before submitting them for the approval of the fan community.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>No, I don't have a problem with that. Most music follows some form of repetition. Let me try comparing this to lines from a familiar speech.<P>"Free at last. Free at last!"<P>Now that was repetition used to good effect. But if Dr. King had repeated it two more times, would it have been a bit much?<P>And yet that's not a good comparison, exactly. Let me try again, with a feeble approach at musical terms.<P>If you use a BBACDA pattern (don't know if that could work, of course <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/redface.gif">) as the ... er, harmony(?) underlying the piece, you can play it over and over, so long as the rest doesn't repeat quite so quickly. That seems to be acceptable practice (my favourite example is one of Beethoven's pieces - I can't remember it, but I could listen to it on a loop tape for days).<P>Or you can repeat a series of notes over and over again as your main theme, but if you do it too many times without somehow making it come across different every so often, it can get excessive, right?<P>Sort of like how this might be too much: "I am a good man. I am a good man. I am a good man." But maybe not this: "I am a good man. I am an honest man. I am a good man."<P>Again, not the perfect example. I'm just trying to explain what I'm seeing.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B> The first is that I'm just not very good at composing music. I have no formal training; just because I play and listen to a lot of music for piano doesn't qualify me to write some myself! So these are the works of an amateur and are hardly up to the same standard of, well, any professional.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Eh, well, maybe. Sometimes the amateur keeps higher standards, I suspect. I've seen a few professionals recycle work a lot - James Horner, for example, rather shamelessly did three movie soundtracks that were practically identical. <P>Amateur earns a bad name only when used to describe competition created to keep "the working class" out - the ones who can only afford to create for pay.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>The second is that it's somehow more in tying with my, if you'll pardon the lofty terminology, vision for the suite. When I embarked on the project, my plan was to write pieces that captured the different sides of their personalities while at the same time tying the individual pieces together with an underlying theme (perhaps more a motif than a theme) to show that these are all sides of the same character. I'm at least glad you think I succeeded, to an extent, in conveying a broad spectrum of emotions within each piece. Perhaps I didn't necessarily hit all four corners (happiness, sadness, anger, tranquility) in all seven sketches, but for the most part I tried to hit at least two. After all, the characters are not one-dimensional.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>No, I've no complaint about any of that. My observation was about something smaller. And it's hard to express what it is properly. The themes are fine - and a good decision.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>I think it really is down to taste - I never expected everyone to take to the suite - but then I am an amateur, so the pieces certainly don't display as much ingenuity as perhaps they could.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>OTOH, Bobby Fischer liked to watch the games of inexperienced players, because sometimes they had flashes of useful originality, if not the technique to back them up.<P>You have more training than those he watched, but I don't think it's cost you your ability to seek display ideas. It's just allowed you to use them more effectively.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B> However, some of the pieces were originally conceived to be longer than the final results (Hel
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Postby K A H on Tue Nov 13, 2001 6:12 am

And now, to reply to the other posts that have been made of late....<P>As concerns a professional-quality recording of "Souvenirs d'Avalon": Consul, I'll still be sending you the photocopy of the manuscript, but I'll probably play a hands off role for the actual recording process (since I'll be in either Cambridge or Ohio during the process, I can't really play any other role, can I? <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/biggrin.gif">) I'll let you make the decisions regarding the performer and the production techniques, although I'm in the process of writing a set of notes describing my suggested performance techniques (and I should stress that they don't always coincide with the technique in my own recordings of the suite simply because I hadn't spent long enough practising the pieces when I recorded them).<P>Tamahome, as I said I'm very intrigued by your own offer of a professional pianist and professional recording equipment; however, if you want a copy of the manuscript, I'd recommend waiting until a more legible one is available. (And I know I've already said that.) Since I'd be thrilled by any professional quality recording and there's no way I can hear auditions, as it were, I can only let the would-be artistes decide among themselves who will make a recording (I suppose there's nothing to stop both of you creating recordings).<P>As far as partially orchestrating the suite is concerned; well, I'd like to see it as much as anyone else, but such a thing would take a bit more time than I have to invest at the moment (or, indeed, at any moment between now and the end of June, 2002). Although, Consul, didn't you say you were interested in giving it a shot?<P>gwalla, thanks as ever for the musical recommendations, I'll give them a listen. (And Tae, as well, lest I forget.)<P>So, "Elf Life", eh? Certainly a good subject. A small nucleus of important characters with rounded personalities. Might take some doing to write something that fits the offbeat fantasy tone Carson Fire uses. I'd certainly need to take a different approach than I took to "Souvenirs d'Avalon" in terms of structure of the overall set and the individual pieces, not to mention the content. Time concerns, though, mean that it would be a very long time before I embarked on such a project. However, it seems reasonable to assume "Elf Life" will still be going by then.<P>The two console RPG spoofs, "RPG World" and "Adventurers!", are of course also likely subjects.... so likely I'm almost certain I've been beaten to it for at least one of them! Besides, game music and classical music are different worlds.<P>And I need hardly say which I prefer. Much as I love console RPGs, I can't listen to the music out of context without it sounding somehow wrong to me.<P>K.A.H.
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Postby notRKB on Wed Nov 14, 2001 1:17 am

Consul:
Wow! Col. Springs! I'm just in Albuquerque, nowhere as far as Socorro or such. And I live in Los Alamos (please don't hold it against me), so we could meet there (I know of a few baby grands we could use surruptitiously). Or not, as I think you mentioned using the school's recording equip along w/ a good piano.<P>I also play Cello, and I'm sure that I could find quite a few places that would transcribe to the singing tone of the ol' Pear Shape well with piano accompaniment.<P>We're still waiting on the score, oh great KAH! (ankh! utha! senb! I know you're not a pharoah, but whatever)<P>Regardez! oh,
Regards,<P>Alex
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Postby gwalla on Wed Nov 14, 2001 3:18 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by K A H:
<B>And I need hardly say which I prefer. Much as I love console RPGs, I can't listen to the music out of context without it sounding somehow wrong to me.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Hey, the Chocobo music is great for any occasion!<P>*dances like a moogle*<P>------------------
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I go now, to mess with the Watchmen..."<P> - Darryl a.k.a. the Kingdom Come Baby, "Age of Crisis on Infinite Clones Saga - Chapter One Million: Onslaught of the Secret Genesis Wars Agenda", <I>Plastic Man Special '99</I><p>[This message has been edited by gwalla (edited 11-14-2001).]
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Postby K A H on Thu Nov 15, 2001 3:44 am

Might make more sense to e-mail this; nevertheless, perhaps it will interest some of the rest of the forum. Or not, since as with my earlier posts to "Interest in fanmusic revisited", it reports not progress but lack thereof.<P>So I went to make a photocopy of the sixty-page autograph manuscript of "Souvenirs d'Avalon" this afternoon. I got to the common room in which is found the copier with twenty minutes to spare before I had to leave for a seminar. Time enough, I thought. Ah, but I had a few corrections to make to the manuscript first.<P>Well, while I was doing that, another guy stepped up to the copier. He was also copying music (though printed rather than handwritten) and was trying to put two A4 pages onto one A3 page by putting them side by side on the glass and copying that.<P>He proceeded to cause paper jam after paper jam after paper jam until I got fed up and left.<P>At least I made the corrections. I'll try again tomorrow.<P>K.A.H.
I was considering doing a bit of paper jamming of my own after ten minutes of that.
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Postby Consul on Fri Nov 16, 2001 1:11 am

Okay, cool. Now I'll get to see how well that software actually works.<P>Like I said, I can do it manually if all else fails. There are some pretty nifty packages out there for making sheet music (one of which is LaTex based).<P>I'll get on this ASAP. That way, while I'm off in Michigan and doing other things until February, notRKB can be practicing, and I can do some research on the best ways to record a grand piano. I also need to determine what gear I'll need to take, and what I'll have available down there already.<P>This will all be done via email, so we don't bug all the poor forumers. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/biggrin.gif"><P>Until next time...
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Postby gwalla on Fri Nov 16, 2001 3:21 am

I understand that there is Optical Character Recognition software available that would allow you to scan a score and convert it to PDF (Adobe Acrobat) format.<P>------------------
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Postby Foust on Fri Nov 16, 2001 9:13 am

Wow, I'm deeply impressed. I mean, really, really impressed.
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Postby K A H on Fri Nov 16, 2001 9:25 am

Since this is of interest to more people than just Consul and NotRKB, the producer and performer[s] [relatively] soon to be responsible for the professional quality recording of "Souvenirs d'Avalon", I'm posting it here instead <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/smile.gif"><P>After a late afternoon copier run, I managed to photocopy the autograph manuscript. Not that I didn't have problems with the copier, but at least I didn't cause paper jam after paper jam, and no-one was obviously waiting to use the copier while I was there (which is good because it took about twenty minutes, all told). So Consul, it should be on its way to you within the next few days.<P>For the benefit of the various other people interested in getting their hands on the sheet music of "Souvenirs d'Avalon", the next step as I understand it is for Consul to use the software he has available, or perhaps other means, to produce a printed copy of the manuscript rather than a hand-written one. Consul, I don't know if I've suggested this, but once you've done that, it would certainly be prudent to send me a copy of the results so I can check for any errors, some of which may of course have been written into the autograph but some of which might only result from the near illegibility of some passages! Once I've looked over it, I'll send it back and NotRKB can begin practising it. And anyone else interested in a copy of the sheet music can contact me (in fact, on that note: Tae, is the offer of webspace to host the sheet music still good? I'm sure it won't take up nearly as much space as the MP3s! <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/biggrin.gif">)<P>Ehm, and also, if Our Good Cartoonist is reading.... it's almost certainly not long till this thread slides off the front page of the forum and the news announcement slides off the "Avalon" front page, and both slide into the Realm of the Forgotten. Ahm, will you still be linking to it? Or will you be holding out for the superior recording in a few months' time? (I, ehm, presume you approved of the suite since, although "It must be heard to be believed" could be taken either way - I've said "It must be seen to be believed" about both Milan Cathedral and <I>The Swarm</I>, one of which is an architectural marvel of the western world and one of which is one of the most god-awful pieces of cinema in recent (1978) memory - referring to me as "an illustrious Forum-goer" - a title which I surely have never merited! - seems to indicate a favourable reception! <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/smile.gif">)<P>Anyway, Consul, I should be posting the manuscript by Monday afternoon at the latest. Possibly tomorrow if I can drag myself out of bed early enough (never an easy task).<P>K.A.H.
Forever on New York time.<p>[This message has been edited by K A H (edited 11-16-2001).]
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Postby Balfegor on Fri Nov 16, 2001 10:57 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by K A H:
<B>(in fact, on that note: Tae, is the offer of webspace to host the sheet music still good? I'm sure it won't take up nearly as much space as the MP3s! <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/biggrin.gif">)
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yup! I've about 20Mb free on my space, I think, so there should be no problem.<P>-Tae
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Postby K A H on Sun Nov 18, 2001 5:56 am

I don't know why I should have been surprised by this, if "surprised" is even the right word, but, well.... I was, what can I say.<P>Whilst perusing the "Framed!!!" page the other day (incidentally, Damonk, if you're reading, I think the <I>film noir</I> spoof, particularly Friday's entry, has been a riot thus far), I followed a succession of links (or perhaps I should say a chain of links?) and ended up at the Livejournal page of the comic's <I>auteur</I>.<P>And for a few entries a week or so ago, much to my amazement, sundry pieces from "Souvenirs d'Avalon" were listed in the Music portion.<P>I suppose it came as a surprise since it's the first time I've seen "Souvenirs" get a mention on a page other than one directly related to "Avalon". At any rate, it made me realise again that either the suite appears to have been more well-received than it is, and/or it has been more well-received than I expected it to be. Perhaps it's just a case of my being astonished that <I>any</I> creative endeavour I undertake is appreciated by anyone; still under the spell of the novelty of the music I've written being listened to and enjoyed by people I've never met and probably never will meet....<P>On a "business" note, the photocopy of the manuscript will be in the post as of tomorrow. I noticed a few corrections I forgot to make before copying, but I'd presume some manual adjustments can be made where needed? (At the very least, I hope for Consul's sake that the entire score doesn't need to be re-written manually - I'd venture to say it took longer to write the music down than to conceive the melodies, and it's not something I'd wish on anyone!<P>K.A.H.
Although the sight of the completed manuscript evokes a sense of satisfaction....
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Postby tappel on Mon Nov 19, 2001 2:02 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gwalla:
<B>I understand that there is Optical Character Recognition software available that would allow you to scan a score and convert it to PDF (Adobe Acrobat) format.
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yeah, that may be. But in my experience, if you try to OCR anything hand-written, you'll end up re-typing / re-typesetting it anyway.
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Postby K A H on Wed Nov 21, 2001 6:21 am

*picks the thread up from the floor and brushes off the dust*<P>Before the thread completes its merry slide off the front page of the forum and the announcement of the suite's completion completes <I>its</I> merry slide off the front page of.... off the front page, just one more announcement (from me, anyway).<P>The photocopies are in the post. Should arrive in Colorado in, oh, maybe another eight to ten days. I posted them two days ago, but I suppose there's the Thanksgiving season to take into account when estimating delivery time.<P>I'll probably start a new thread when the sheet music is available for download in wake of the fact that Consul and notRKB are not the only people to have expressed interest in seeing it.<P>As for if/when/how my own recordings will be linked once the thread and the news announcement slide off their respective front pages, well, maybe it doesn't really matter since there will be a superior quality recording available soon. I'll leave that decision to the relevant person (or people as the case could be).<P>And, again, thanks to everyone who supported this project before, during, and after its completion. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/smile.gif"><P>*casually tosses the thread back onto the floor and wanders off, stage left, humming a few bars of the Lamentation*<P>K.A.H.
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Postby TheLaser on Tue Dec 18, 2001 8:28 am

*WOW*<P>I'd seen this thread a long time ago, but never got time to download/listen to the mp3s. But I was reminded of them when I saw the recent work on the cover and came back a-hunting, so I'll bump the thing. Just, wow.<P>I would really love some high bitrate mp3s of this though... 56kbps is just painful. You can always use <a href="http://www.hot.ee/smpman/mp3/Lame389.zip">LAME</a> to encode the things you know. Just unzip that file and stick lame.exe into the directory with the wavs, fire up a command line, and do "lame filename.wav", and 128kbps filename.mp3 will be there for ya. (after a bit of compression time anyway) I apologize for the remedial DOS if you already know. So many don't nowadays.<P>Best of luck to the professional recording efforts. And remember, there is no such thing as "unworthy" art. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/smile.gif"><P>------------------
TheLaser<P><I>See, the trick in Avalon (over) analysis is to not predict future events, but to instead cleverly justify those events you most wish to see.</I><P>There is no Avalon cabal.
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Postby shimavak on Sat Jan 05, 2002 4:04 am

I don't know if its too late to ask, but I would love to lay my eyes on the sheet music, scanned in would be best ('cause its free!) Is there any chance we'll be seeing that 'round any time soon now, KAH?<P>Oh yeah, one more thing...<P>-=bows down in utter reverence=- I LOVE THEM!!!
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Postby K A H on Sat Jan 12, 2002 2:23 am

I didn't even notice this thread was still here! <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/tongue.gif"><P>Well anyway, to answer the issues raised in the last two posts: I could certainly create higher-quality MP3s, 128kbps would not be out of the question I'm sure. However, as I don't have a webpage of my own, I'd have nowhere to host it. "Souvenirs d'Avalon" in its entirety is over forty minutes long, and forty minutes' worth of 128kbps MP3s adds up to around forty megabytes. The only ways I could get <I>those</I> up on the web would involve paying for the webspace, either by investing in my own webpage or submitting them to an MP3 site with a hosting fee. Unless someone else knows otherwise, that is.<P>As for the sheet music, well, I'm working on that. In a way. I don't know if I have access to a scanner myself (I've not seen one at the university and I don't know when I'll be at my parents' house again); I'll be sending Consul and notRKB photocopies of the music in the near future but I have no clue if either of them have scanners. (Guys, if you're reading this, let me know if you do.)<P>Rest assured interested persons (of whom there seem to be a fair few) will be made aware when the scans are available.<P>K.A.H.
Be warned: the manuscript isn't entirely legible....
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Postby K A H on Sun Jan 13, 2002 5:37 am

Oh, and one other thing (apart from anything else I'm posting this because seeing two threads I started right next to each other seems unnatural and unsettling): there is what may, I suppose, be termed a set of liner notes available (on request for the moment) for the suite. They're a bit more detailed than the set on Darth Paradox's page (I wrote them a week or two after I posted the links to the actual music), although, given the level of detail (key, time signature, primary musical influences, and a description of what the piece is intended to capture (if not what it actually does evoke)) and the occasionally esoteric musical terminology therein, I'd imagine they're probably only of interest to the musically inclined.<P>Still. They're there if anyone wants them.<P>Incidentally, I followed the link to the LAME ZIP file; unfortunately, as I don't read Estonian, I had no idea where to proceed from the page it brought up. Any Estonians here? Has "Avalon" fandom reached Tallinn?<P>[Edit: Never mind, I found another link. Er, anyone know where I can find forty megabytes of webspace, cheap?]<P>K.A.H.
Much like the suite itself, I wrote the liner notes during a moment of boredom.... <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/tongue.gif"><p>[This message has been edited by K A H (edited 01-13-2002).]
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Postby SabrStrykMkII on Sun Jan 13, 2002 6:13 am

try <A HREF="http://www.freewebz.com" TARGET=_blank>www.freewebz.com</A>
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Postby K A H on Thu Jan 17, 2002 2:47 am

I know I should do the decent thing and just shut up about the bloody suite and let this thread complete its slide off the front page of the forum, but I do have a minor announcement to make about it, for those who still care.<P>I have, fortunately, not sent off the photocopies I made of the manuscript; I say fortunately, because over the past two days I have made some rather substantial if not ground-shaking revisions to the Ballade. After listening to it over and over, I decided something about it didn't quite work in my mind; specifically, the statement of Joe's theme at the very beginning of the piece was the only complete statement of his theme in the entire suite, never mind in the Ballade. Every other statement of his theme cuts off after either four or six bars.<P>After some thought, I changed most of the entrances of his theme - later in the first section, at the beginning of the second section, during the growing agitation in the third section, during the build-up of the fourth section, and at the beginning of the fifth section - so that they reflected the full statement of the theme at the beginning of the piece. Few, if any, are direct re-statements; there are many slight harmonic variations that preserve the idea if not the precise language, as it were.<P>I'll be photocopying this and possibly also making a new recording of the Ballade in the interests of having a more up-to-date version available for Consul and notRKB to use as a demo recording.<P>So there may be a new version to download in the coming weeks, if anyone's interested.<P>K.A.H.
And now, or should I say <I>for</I> now, I'll shut up about the suite.
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