Presenting.... for your listening "pleasure"....

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Postby Consul on Fri Nov 09, 2001 6:01 am

Okay, I'll try to answer everyone's questions/issues in turn...<P>KAH, scanned copies of the manuscript should work okay, as long as the scans stay high-quality, which will mean big file sizes. Here's the trick: Someone developed OCR for sheet music. Cool, huh? I don't know if I can get it to work or not (it's a Linux opensource app, along with the Postscript app to store the final product), but if all else fails, I'll make a manual copy into a sheet music program and be done with it. Maybe gwalla can help out here...<P>As for performance, I can assure you my piano playing is incapable of handling some of these pieces. I play synths, preferably analog ones. Piano has always been somewhat out of my range of interest to play. You see, "synth" doesn't always automatically mean "keyboard". There are other controllers to take advantage of in the elctronic realm.<P>CD release issue: I would actually recommend using <A HREF="http://www.cdbaby.net/" TARGET=_blank>CD Baby</A> for distribution of a CD. Mp3.com just changed their policies to be more restrictive (they did get bought out by an RIAA member, after all), and have displaced many folks over to <A HREF="http://www.ampcast.com/" TARGET=_blank>Ampcast</A>. They charge a $25 yearly fee, however, but that's better than someone potentially taking your copyrights away from you. (And don't bet that that's not what will happen next, but I'll get off my soapbox now...)<P>As for the music... Excellent job, KAH. I don't have the right skills to do classical music. And I'm happy with my synths. I'm listening to it as I write this, so I can't give a really well-formed opinion yet, but I like what I hear.<P>Unfortunately, a more professional rendering and recording is still tentative, but I'm confident I can work it out. But it won't be "in a few weeks". More like, a few months. Remember, the holidays are coming up. It will have to be afterwards. However, have patience everyone, and justice will prevail. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/biggrin.gif"><P>Okay, back to work...
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Postby K A H on Fri Nov 09, 2001 6:21 am

"An illustrious forum-goer"? "Really must be heard to be believed"? Josh, you can't be talking about me there, I'm nowhere near worthy of such words!<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Shatteredtower:
<B> I didn't reply before now because I really didn't feel I had anything worthwhile to add. I still suspect that's the case - it's like me telling Josh Waitzkin how to improve his game. But you did ask anyone who had listened to this for feedback - twice, in fact. <P> Thank you for your time, and the fruits of your efforts. With luck, I will hear more of your work in the future.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Like telling Josh Waitzkin how to improve his game? Fff. Hardly. More like telling Keanu Reeves how to improve his acting. Or it would be if he acted as a hobby. (And if he kept it to a hobby, he'd be doing <I>me</I> a favour....)<P>Still, you do raise a good point, and yes, I did ask people to say what they thought. Let me offer a defence of sorts, though.<P>There are a few reasons the pieces feature short phrases used often, a feature of which I was conscious and wary before submitting them for the approval of the fan community. The first is that I'm just not very good at composing music. I have no formal training; just because I play and listen to a lot of music for piano doesn't qualify me to write some myself! So these are the works of an amateur and are hardly up to the same standard of, well, any professional.<P>The second is that it's somehow more in tying with my, if you'll pardon the lofty terminology, vision for the suite. When I embarked on the project, my plan was to write pieces that captured the different sides of their personalities while at the same time tying the individual pieces together with an underlying theme (perhaps more a motif than a theme) to show that these are all sides of the same character. I'm at least glad you think I succeeded, to an extent, in conveying a broad spectrum of emotions within each piece. Perhaps I didn't necessarily hit all four corners (happiness, sadness, anger, tranquility) in all seven sketches, but for the most part I tried to hit at least two. After all, the characters are not one-dimensional.<P>I also wanted to keep the themes fairly simple so that they could be more easily cast against each other if I wanted to emphasise the ties between the characters; this is especially true of the themes for Hel
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Postby LazarusLong42 on Fri Nov 09, 2001 9:56 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by K A H:
<B>The first is that I'm just not very good at composing music. I have no formal training; just because I play and listen to a lot of music for piano doesn't qualify me to write some myself! So these are the works of an amateur and are hardly up to the same standard of, well, any professional.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I'm going to have to disagree with you here, KAH. Playing and listening <I>does</I> qualify you to write piano music. I've written some music myself but, being a violinist, these tend toward string pieces. I'm impressed with the quality of the music, though I do hope for a better recording <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/smile.gif"><P>And, also, remember the root from which "amateur" is derived: <I>amare</I>, to love.<P>I'm still listening through the end pieces, but in general they're very good, especially if this is your first go at writing something major. Repetitiveness can be a blessing or a curse, and I think you've done an OK job there--was it Cage or Copland who wrote an entire piece with no notes other than middle C?<P>Some of the very technical work in the Caprice almost certainly needs a professional pianist--it sounds demanding, and I'd love to see the sheet music--but it certainly captures H
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Postby BMKnight on Fri Nov 09, 2001 10:54 am

Hey KAH, you DO know if you go over to MP3.com you can set up an account over there and they will host and stream the MP3's and make them downloadable for you, right? And also when people listen to them you get paid?<P>Well, just thought I would remind you... =)<P>~B.
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Postby gwalla on Fri Nov 09, 2001 11:17 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by notRKB:
<B>Gorgeous stuff, truly worthy. Heyyyy, I know that KHFM (New Mexico's classical station) would love to hear what up and coming amateurs are writing. Hmmm. (I know a lot of the ppl at the station personally.)</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Oh, is that station more receptive to recent composers? Up here in the San Francisco bay area, KDFC is strictly standard rep--basically if it wasn't written by a Big Name, they won't play it. The only real exception is on their show where they feature a full performance by one of the local orchestras or ensembles, since Michael Tilson Thomas is fairly adventurous.<P>------------------
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Postby notRKB on Fri Nov 09, 2001 12:13 pm

This may seem presumptuous, as I've not yet been able to listen to KAH's opus, but I would be honored to replace Consul as the recording artist for the first (hopefully more to follow?) fan-music for Avalon.<P>A little about the arteest:
I've been playing the piano off and on for near to 15 years, have read Avalon for more than a year, and have lurked/stalked the forums for around half that time.<P>As I'm currently at the University of New Mexico (and the cold _just_ arrived <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/frown.gif"> I may have the chance to use the Music department's recording studio! <P>Most of all, I love to play , having asked for lessons c. 3-4 years old, but am out of practice, mostly for want of something cool to motivate me, like this!<P>I'm great at sight-reading, and when able to get my hands on a keyboard practice Bach's (praise to him) Preludes and Fugues. Although I'm sure that Les Souvenirs d'Avalon is a very worthy piece, I doubt that , given a month or so to practice it, I wouldn't be able to play it in a manner suitable for KAH and Josh (the MAN) to call their own.<P>As to KAH's comparison of himself to Fred Piro Gallagher; I, unfortunately, am definitely a Rodney "Largo" Caston-type, and am as full as bravado as my fragile little ego can afford <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/wink.gif"> At the moment I perhaps sound as though I've been playing for 5 years, but through giving a piece it's due I could assuredly sound at least 10 years.<P>Not promising miracles,<P>Alex N. Piltch
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Postby damonk13 on Fri Nov 09, 2001 12:16 pm

Good stuff, Matthew.<P>I can see what was meant by the slow-ish <I>trilles</I> in the Overture, tho (if that IS what was meant by the "filler" comment)... it's not necessarily that they are too much, but rather that they don't seemed to be timed as well with the mood and tempo of the part.<P>Actually, it's like your fingers weren't warmed up and limber enough when you were performing that initial section, because after that, your digits fly and fly well.<P>In fact, some of the higher-tempo trilles you have in later sections come out sounding <I>very</I> nice!<P>...<P>In regards to your "unhealthy" listening and relistening of your work, i think that's perfectly natural fro many artists, no matter whatthe medium the work is produced in...<P>I know that i can stare at a piece of art i rendered for hours, once finished. Or listen to really old musical mixes i whipped up when i had silly dreams of being a musician in my younger days, or reread poems or stories i've worked hard on, etc.<P>But really, i have to say that i was very impressed with this -- i remember this being mentioned months ago, and expecting it to be a fairly cheesy canned product (no reason, and it was nothing against you, just a feeling, i guess..). <P>Boy, was *I* ever proved wrong, tho. I'll be listening to this a lot in the next few weeks, methinks, as i try to hammer out more thesis pages...<P>...<P>One last thing -- i know what you mean by lead-footpedal syndrome... i have the exact same insecurity/tendency whenever i fiddle around on a piano... but you do it very well, as hardly any ghost note dissonace is evident inyour entire work. <P>Again, like I said... good stuff, Matthew.<P>------------------
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Postby K A H on Sat Nov 10, 2001 1:57 am

Gosh. The reaction to the suite continues to amaze me....<P>First of all, to address the ever-burning question of putting the MP3s on MP3.com, opinion even on this forum seems to be heavily divided. When I was looking for a host for the music, MP3.com did cross my mind (for a start, the guy who wrote a guitar solo for "Alice" has some of his work hosted there), but there seem to be as many advocates as there are nay-sayers because of various restrictions they impose on their users these days. Not to mention the fees involved. I am just a poor graduate student after all! (I'm sure there are forum-goers who can sympathise.)<P>To address the equally ever-burning question of somehow churning out a CD of these pieces using the more professional recording, well, that's absolutely beyond the limits of my "expertise" (inasmuch as I may be said to have expertise of any sort), but it sounds as though there would be some interest in it (I can't deny that I'm quite taken by the idea, but I can't help thinking there would be a lot of red tape to surmount, or other obstacles, and starting in January I'm going to be very busy with academic work until the summer), and it also sounds as though there are people here for whom getting a CD published and distributed is not beyond the limits of their expertise. Well, as I've said before, it wasn't in my original plan for the suite, but it's taken directions I could never have anticipated even in the three months since I suggested it. Who knows where it could lead? (I might add that the comments that have been raised about unscrupulous types passing off the MP3s as their own have worried me a bit....)<P>NotKRB, well, I'm certainly grateful for your offer to record the pieces, but I think it's probably something you'd need to take up with Consul. It sounds as though your background is somewhere between comparable and superior to my own (I've also been playing for fifteen years and am usually good at sight-reading - didn't used to be - and had I spent a few weeks practising, I'd like to think I'd have produced recordings that were somewhat cleaner than the ones now available to the masses), and I'm certainly happy to let you make a recording of the pieces; if things somehow fall into place for a commercial release, though (and that still seems like a lofty dream at the moment), you'd probably need to discuss amongst yourselves whose recording takes precedence. (Even if it's normal for classical pieces, it would seem somehow odd for there to be multiple recordings of the suite by different artists available - in my lifetime, anyway!)<P>As for your comments on the style (and, just to be picky, I'm actually a maths student, not CS <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/smile.gif">), I must say, Dvorak never crossed my mind. He was certainly good at synthesising various styles in his music (I'm sure I need hardly name the Slavonic Dances, the "New World" symphony, the "American" string quartet), though, as ever, comparing my work to that of a great such as Dvorak makes me feel unworthy! <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/smile.gif"> Paganini, as well.... well, as you say, I haven't sold my soul (and it's not necessary to do so to play the pieces!)<P>More comments to address, but they're shutting down the online caff I've had to resort to using, so I'll need to address them later.<P>K.A.H.
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Postby Tamahome on Sat Nov 10, 2001 5:45 am

Hey KAH,<P>Just an idea... I potentially have access to professional recording facilities, recording engineer, and pro calibur(as in they actually play as a job when the desire arises) pianist(s). <P>My thought is to get a master cd recorded and rip high bitrate .mp3's to distribute again. Could also get a studio or a concert hall to record in potentially too now that i think about it...<P>There may be some small cost which some of us may be willing to defray for cutting the first cd? (small donations anyone, like $1 a piece?)<P>Just a thought... the musicians and facilities of a music conservatory can be had. In terms of protecting your rights to the music we can discuss that too. I'm just impressed with what you've done. And at the very least we could get you a better recording for your own gratification <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/smile.gif"><P>If this at all intrigues you let me know<P>Tama<P>PS- Kudos
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Postby notRKB on Sat Nov 10, 2001 9:24 am

Wow! If there is a possiblity of having professionals play & record, mix, &c. then I will just shut my po' little mouth except to hound about updates on the progress!<P>A conservatory, Tamahome? Which exactly? What instrument do you play? Or do you sing?<P>(wishes that he could push himself to be able to have a starving artist mentality so that he could take his music that seriously. perhaps after (or during!) I make some money in the Computing market.)<P>I _still_ would like to be able to d/l a copy of the score, tho. It sounds like such a challenge to learn! Gods, I love challenges. Esp. the Caprice. <P>... Strange, how I've never had any sort of PSG for Helene, I guess she just seems a little too ditzy for my tastes. She'd probably be a very good friend, though.<P>With much regard,<P>Alex, got beaten 5 times in a row in a Starcraft tourney today. I'm no good at that game.
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Postby Sterling on Sun Nov 11, 2001 2:12 am

Great songs. I'll admit I haven't read the rest of the thread (too long <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/wink.gif"> ), but are there any plans to gradually rescore these and add other instruments? Piano's nice, but I prefer a variety of instruments.<P>I did find that you captured the essence of the characters very well. Especially Helene, Joe, and Ceilidh. Ryan's song, I wasn't quite sure about originally, but I've come to like it. In all, a very good job.<P>And I love the Ceilidh and Helene pieces. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/biggrin.gif"><P>------------------
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Postby gwalla on Sun Nov 11, 2001 2:32 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by K A H:
<B>(Dr. Damonk?)</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Docmonk? <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/wink.gif"><P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>As for your suggestions for other strips to use for projects such as this, "Sluggy" is definitely too completely off-the-wall for classical music to be appropriate! <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/smile.gif"></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I agree. Unless you consider "The Merry-Go-Round Broke Down" to be classical! <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/biggrin.gif"><P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>At times, so too is "MegaTokyo", but considering the source material for the strip, perhaps classical music wouldn't be so out of the question. (Although if my very limited experience with Japanese animation is anything to go on, it might involve a strange synthesis of symphony orchestra with guitars and drums that has never sat well with me.)</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Not sure if drums & guitar would really be required. Still, you might want to check out the Norwegian composer/electric guitarist Terje Rypdal, who is just about the only composer to use electric guitar in a classical context without it seeming out of place.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>"GPF".... that one's interesting, although how one would capture the sheer weirdness of Fooker in music I'm not sure offhand! <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/biggrin.gif"></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Quarter tones. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/wink.gif"> <P>------------------
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Postby gwalla on Sun Nov 11, 2001 2:37 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by K A H:
<B>(Dr. Damonk?)</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Docmonk? <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/wink.gif"><P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>As for your suggestions for other strips to use for projects such as this, "Sluggy" is definitely too completely off-the-wall for classical music to be appropriate! <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/smile.gif"></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I agree. Unless you consider "The Merry-Go-Round Broke Down" to be classical! <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/biggrin.gif"><P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>At times, so too is "MegaTokyo", but considering the source material for the strip, perhaps classical music wouldn't be so out of the question. (Although if my very limited experience with Japanese animation is anything to go on, it might involve a strange synthesis of symphony orchestra with guitars and drums that has never sat well with me.)</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Not sure if drums & guitar would really be required. Still, you might want to check out the Norwegian composer/electric guitarist Terje Rypdal, who is just about the only composer to use electric guitar in a classical context without it seeming out of place.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>"GPF".... that one's interesting, although how one would capture the sheer weirdness of Fooker in music I'm not sure offhand! <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/biggrin.gif"></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Quarter tones. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/wink.gif"> <P>------------------
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Postby K A H on Sun Nov 11, 2001 4:26 am

Well, whatever was wrong with the servers here seems to have righted itself again. Never try to comprehend the caprices of Cambridge, you'll just give yourself a headache.... ach.<P>Anyway, to continue the reply I started yesterday.... my gosh, the offers to make a professional recording of the suite are pouring in thick and fast. Tamahome, I must say I'm very intrigued by your offer of a professional recording studio and also the services of a professional pianist! My only concern at the moment is that since I've had multiple offers, I'd be offending the people I end up turning down!<P>Naturally, I'd be willing to make a donation to the process of cutting a CD (it would only be right for me to do so, after all), though as I said before I'm not exactly rolling in cash, so I'd need to be sure there's enough interest to cover the cost. It seems as though there is <I>some</I> interest, at any rate.... at least among the forum-goers.<P>I don't think there is actually a scanner in my college library, and even if there is I spent fifteen minutes trying to log in to their system last night without success, so there may be a problem with my account. I may just use a copier and send the results on to Consul to transform into something legible and far more useful than scans of the autograph!! <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/smile.gif"><P>Damonk, to address your comments on the overture, if it was partly a case of my fingers being a bit stiff when I recorded the overture (it probably doesn't come as a surprise that I recorded it first since it's the shortest and simplest piece), it was also a question of how I thought it would make sense to perform it. When I wrote the overture in August (it was also the first piece I wrote), I marked it as "Largo", then changed it to "Grave", the slowest tempo there is (Beethoven's <I>Path
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Postby Tamahome on Sun Nov 11, 2001 5:15 am

In reply:<P>The musical conservatory in question from my offer: Lawrence University<P>I know many Piano Performance Bachelor Music holders. Certainly more than enough to capture the feel of the composition.<P>I play the sax myself, no i wasn't a connie... a BA biology candidate actually... <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/smile.gif"> But i worked in the recording department at the con whilst i was there and do know who to talk to to get facilities, studio time, mixing, mastering, etc....<P>It was just an offer <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/smile.gif"> Do what you feel is best... IF you are interested email me.<P>Tama
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Postby Tamahome on Sun Nov 11, 2001 5:26 am

In reply:<P>The musical conservatory in question from my offer: Lawrence University<P>I know many Piano Performance Bachelor Music holders. Certainly more than enough to capture the feel of the composition.<P>I play the sax myself, no i wasn't a connie... a BA biology candidate actually... <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/smile.gif"> But i worked in the recording department at the con whilst i was there and do know who to talk to to get facilities, studio time, mixing, mastering, etc....<P>It was just an offer <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/smile.gif"> Do what you feel is best... IF you are interested email me.<P>Tama
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Postby Tamahome on Sun Nov 11, 2001 5:46 am

In reply:<P>The musical conservatory in question from my offer: Lawrence University<P>I know many Piano Performance Bachelor Music holders. Certainly more than enough to capture the feel of the composition.<P>I play the sax myself, no i wasn't a connie... a BA biology candidate actually... <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/smile.gif"> But i worked in the recording department at the con whilst i was there and do know who to talk to to get facilities, studio time, mixing, mastering, etc....<P>It was just an offer <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/smile.gif"> Do what you feel is best... IF you are interested email me.<P>Tama
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Postby SabrStrykMkII on Sun Nov 11, 2001 5:50 am

I also would like to hear and/or see multiple instrumentation. See, I was taught in a band program, and so have a tendency to prefer large ensemble to soloist...<P>Anyway, just wanting to send more support to ya.
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Postby Balfegor on Mon Nov 12, 2001 1:54 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by K A H:
<B> Besides, what little anime I've watched has either featured non-original classical music (and that was for something far more serious than "MegaTokyo"!!) or an orchestra with what for all the world sounded like a bloody drum machine as well as electric guitars (does no-one use actual drums anymore!?) and music that didn't seem sure if it wanted to be more classical or more rock oriented. That's beyond my range.
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>For original, vaguely classical-style music, Yoko Kanno's bgm for Escaflowne and a few other series is good. One of the songs (Blaze) is reminiscent of the opening to Bach's Passion of St. John. One of the ones from Turn-a Gundam (I think) sounds like the Dies Irae from Verdi's Requiem. It's that sort of music, generally. <P>Because the pieces are short, though, there's not much chance for her to develop the themes--longer pieces just seem to play one theme after another, with a little transition--but they do have a nice, semi-classical feel to them. <P>-Tae
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Postby gwalla on Mon Nov 12, 2001 4:01 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by K A H:
<B>Well, since I'd only have a piano to work with (I don't even have a synth to produce realistic-sounding orchestration without having the instruments at my disposal), I wouldn't be able to include them anyway. I'd be interested to hear how an electric guitar can not sound out of place in a classical context, although I wouldn't be surprised if Rypdal's music itself wasn't entirely to my taste, given my general reaction to more recent classical works.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Rypdal tends to write in a "third stream" style (he studied jazz under George Russell, as well as classical composition under Finn Mortenson). It's really hard to describe how it works, although if you've heard some of Joe Satriani's slower pieces you'll have some idea. You can sample some of his stuff <A HREF="http://music.barnesandnoble.com/search/results.asp?ctr=71016&userid=6AX0OH4SI9" TARGET=_blank>here</A>. Waves and Descendre are more on the jazz end of the spectrum, Q.E.D. very neoclassical, Eos very experimental, Chaser more rock.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Which of course can be very easily done with a piano <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/tongue.gif"> They haven't yet made a piano with 175 keys to the best of my knowledge!! (And if they do, I'd be amazed to see them squeeze it into a room, since getting a piano with the standard 88 into a room seems tricky enough - imagine two of them side by side!)</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It is, however, possible if you have two pianos, tuned a quarter-tone apart, and two pianists. Still, it'd be a bit much.<P>------------------
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I go now, to mess with the Watchmen..."<P> - Darryl a.k.a. the Kingdom Come Baby, "Age of Crisis on Infinite Clones Saga - Chapter One Million: Onslaught of the Secret Genesis Wars Agenda", <I>Plastic Man Special '99</I>
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Postby K A H on Mon Nov 12, 2001 8:27 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gwalla:
<B> I agree. Unless you consider "The Merry-Go-Round Broke Down" to be classical! <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/biggrin.gif"></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Ha! Ehm, not quite! <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/smile.gif"> Besides, if I used that, Warner Brothers would sue, and I'm just a poor student who can't afford to pay a fine for copyright infringment! <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/tongue.gif"><P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Not sure if drums & guitar would really be required. Still, you might want to check out the Norwegian composer/electric guitarist Terje Rypdal, who is just about the only composer to use electric guitar in a classical context without it seeming out of place.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well, since I'd only have a piano to work with (I don't even have a synth to produce realistic-sounding orchestration without having the instruments at my disposal), I wouldn't be able to include them anyway. I'd be interested to hear how an electric guitar can not sound out of place in a classical context, although I wouldn't be surprised if Rypdal's music itself wasn't entirely to my taste, given my general reaction to more recent classical works.<P>Besides, what little anime I've watched has either featured non-original classical music (and that was for something far more serious than "MegaTokyo"!!) or an orchestra with what for all the world sounded like a bloody drum machine as well as electric guitars (does no-one use actual <I>drums</I> anymore!?) and music that didn't seem sure if it wanted to be more classical or more rock oriented. That's beyond my range.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Quarter tones. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/wink.gif"> </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Which of course can be very easily done with a piano <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/tongue.gif"> They haven't yet made a piano with 175 keys to the best of my knowledge!! (And if they do, I'd be amazed to see them squeeze it into a room, since getting a piano with the standard 88 into a room seems tricky enough - imagine two of them side by side!)<P>K.A.H.
Hoping this doesn't turn into a multipost....
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Postby gwalla on Mon Nov 12, 2001 9:55 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by K A H:
<B>As for your suggestions for other strips to use for projects such as this, "Sluggy" is definitely too completely off-the-wall for classical music to be appropriate! <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/smile.gif"> At times, so too is "MegaTokyo", but considering the source material for the strip, perhaps classical music wouldn't be so out of the question. (Although if my very limited experience with Japanese animation is anything to go on, it might involve a strange synthesis of symphony orchestra with guitars and drums that has never sat well with me.) "GPF".... that one's interesting, although how one would capture the sheer weirdness of Fooker in music I'm not sure offhand! <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/biggrin.gif"></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><A HREF="http://www.elflife.com/" TARGET=_blank>Elf Life</A> would be a very good candidate, I think.<P>------------------
"My work here is done...
I go now, to mess with the Watchmen..."<P> - Darryl a.k.a. the Kingdom Come Baby, "Age of Crisis on Infinite Clones Saga - Chapter One Million: Onslaught of the Secret Genesis Wars Agenda", <I>Plastic Man Special '99</I>
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Postby Sterling on Mon Nov 12, 2001 11:38 am

K.A.H: The multiposts were from when the Keen server was doing Wierd Things last night. The server would time out responding to a post request, but the post would go through. Thinking that their post had not, in fact, gone through, the frustrated user would sit there trying to get it to submit.<P>The fact that delete operations had about a 50/50 (based on the lack of other information <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/wink.gif"> ) chance of going through further complicated the situation.<P>------------------
-Sterling
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Postby Consul on Tue Nov 13, 2001 1:17 am

Wow, this is certainly bringing people out of the wood work. So far, besides myself, there are two people who can arrange for professional recordings to be made.<P>notRKB, I live in Colorado Springs, CO. It would actually be possible for me to team up with you on a set of professional recordings. Are you going to school in Soccoro, or Las Cruces (or somewhere else)? I could collect some of the equipment I need in combo with what the University is willing to let us use, and pull something off. Then I could master the raw tracks on the big machine at the studio (my brother and I built and maintain a professional-level recording studio, which unfortunately does not include a piano).<P>Sound like a potential plan?
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Postby K A H on Tue Nov 13, 2001 4:56 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Shatteredtower:
<B> Hey, he's "only" an IM, you know. If I'd compared you to one of the FMs (I think it stands for F.I.D.E. Master), you'd have no idea to whom I was referring. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/smile.gif"></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Perhaps, but I'm hardly the equivalent of an IM in the world of writing music! <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/tongue.gif"> Not many steps above a fish, if any! (And don't get me started on my own chess skills, or rather lack thereof.)<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>I don't see that it's necessary, since this wasn't meant as an attack on your ability either as a musician or composer. It's just that something in it threw me off a bit while listening to it.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well, no, I didn't think you were, but you did raise a good point, and I thought it was the least I could do to address it.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Or you can repeat a series of notes over and over again as your main theme, but if you do it too many times without somehow making it come across different every so often, it can get excessive, right?<P>Sort of like how this might be too much: "I am a good man. I am a good man. I am a good man." But maybe not this: "I am a good man. I am an honest man. I am a good man."<P>Again, not the perfect example. I'm just trying to explain what I'm seeing.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Hm. Well, I know I misunderstood what you said at first, and although I'm not quite sure if I understand fully now, I think I have a better idea.<P>Once again, I was conscious of the fact that some pieces sounded as though they were recycling the same passage over and over, drawing from the same well until it was almost dry, but in as many cases as possible, I tried to compensate by varying the harmony, or in some cases something a bit more, well, subtle. For example, in the centre section of Ceilidh's piece, her four-bar theme appears five times, each time in a different key - G major, C major, F major, A minor, and finally E major - and although the first two are perhaps too similar, each of the other three is cast against a theme for one of the other characters: Phoebe, then Alan, and finally Joe. This doesn't always show through in my performance.<P>A more subtle example would be a fugue I wrote in July based on two themes from, I'm almost ashamed to admit, the two "Lunar" games from Game Arts and Working Designs. The "episodes" between entrances of the subject (or subjects) and countersubject (or countersubjects) consist, with few exceptions, of a simple figure: one voice plays four consecutive notes in a scale, then the other two play different sets of four notes, but with one ascending, the other descending (this motif also serves as the countersubject or, in some sections, countersubjects, with one voice ascending and the other descending). This is then repeated three times, each one a step along the scale from the last. However, it is never the same passage twice: sometimes the lone voice comes first, sometimes second; sometimes it ascends, sometimes descends; the lone voice can be either the top, middle, or bottom voice; sometimes the two voices move towards each other, sometimes away; and sometimes each repetition is a step up the scale, sometimes it's a step down.<P>But, there as here, maybe I was trying to be too clever, or at least more clever than I'm capable of being.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Eh, well, maybe. Sometimes the amateur keeps higher standards, I suspect. I've seen a few professionals recycle work a lot - James Horner, for example, rather shamelessly did three movie soundtracks that were practically identical. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>That somehow doesn't come as a surprise. Was one of them <I>Titanic</I>? If so, I'll hereafter consider the "Music by James Horner" credit equivalent to "Either flee the cinema or hit stop on the video or DVD. NOW!!"<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>OTOH, Bobby Fischer liked to watch the games of inexperienced players, because sometimes they had flashes of useful originality, if not the technique to back them up.<P>You have more training than those he watched, but I don't think it's cost you your ability to seek display ideas. It's just allowed you to use them more effectively.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I suppose formal training does that up to a point; too much, though, and I'm sure there's a danger that originality gives way to a tendency to simply rewrite what has already been written, but [nearly always] with enough differences to avoid being sued for plagiarism!<P>Of course, my formal training has been in <I>playing</I> music rather than writing to it, although just as chess players can learn from watching other people play the game, so it's possible to learn something about how to write music from playing it (it tends to be more enlightening than just listening to it).<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Let me clearly state that I don't view it as a flop at all. Anything that has been enjoyed by so many - especially by listeners as well as the composers - cannot be viewed as a flop.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well, no.... as I have said elsewhere in this thread, the reaction, more or less from the very start, has been overwhelmingly, and astonishingly, positive (the naysayers must be out there, but they're respecting my overly fragile ego and keeping quiet, for which I am grateful). I wasn't sure at first whether you liked it or not; thanks for answering that question.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>I also enjoyed listening to it. That doesn't mean there weren't things I thought might want for some tinkering, but I enjoy that about art. And chess. (Hey, the real fun in that game is often the post-mortem. And the analysis. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/smile.gif">)</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>True. And to be honest, there are pieces I enjoy listening to that I admit have problems in the writing (prime examples are the first two movements of Debussy's <I>Suite bergamasque</I>; the pause before the final chord of the Prelude is absurd, and the Menuet only develops one of its many interesting ideas properly, but they're so much fun to play, and rewarding to listen to).<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>"When your work speaks for itself, don't interrupt." <P>Henry J. Kaiser, American industrialist (1882-1967).</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Wise words. I'm flattered that you think they apply here! <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/smile.gif"><P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Whatever else I have to say about this piece, let me make sure I also say thanks.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You're welcome, and thank you as well for the constructive criticism.<P>K.A.H.
Still listening to the suite rather too often....
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