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Postby josh l. on Fri Aug 10, 2001 9:36 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Shepherd:
<B> I tend to agree with everything Gav says except the above; I even agree wholeheartedly with that, except that when I got asked to write for a webcomic (or just plain for a comic strip) after writing tons and tons of short stories, screenplays, etc. I found it IMMENSELY difficult to try to sustain a narrative while rigorously trying to put a gag in every fourth panel. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I think this is common fallacy among people who write daily comics, I've found. That is, thinking EVERY comic MUST have a gag at the end. Too often I've seen contrived and hackneyed writing come from otherwise good comics 'cause people feel they must follow this format.
Take it from me. If you can't think of a funny gag, sometimes it's best to just not write one. And you don't need to add a "To Be Continued" to the end of the comic for closure either.
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Postby David_McGuire on Sat Aug 11, 2001 6:07 am

I really, really liked that article for two reasons:
1) This is the first time I've heard anyone speak AGAINST webcomics and it's nice to get a new perspective.
2) It didn't insult webcomics, but pointed out why webcomics were unsuccesful as a money-maker right away.<P>The REAL mistake this article made is webcomics are NOT a professional medium, nor does it try to be.
People who want to make a living at comics don't try to do so with webcomics.
That would be absurd.
We put banner ads on our pages and use micropayment systems...
...but only to pay for art supplys and webspace or maybe a few extra bucks for the movies.
Few of us delude ourselves into thinking we're professional-level artists who DESERVE to make a living at our crappy little comics.
We just want an audience.<P>And because we're giving it away for free is why Groth & Co. is upset.
But if they took a minute to look at WHAT we're giving away for free, they might see we're not a real threat.
It's like the beef industry griping because I'm giving away free tripe on the street corner. ;)<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chris Crosby:
<B>The major difference between comic books and webcomics is that comic books have been stuck in this extremely limiting, superhero-focused mindset for the past 50 years or so, and webcomics don't have that problem. But that's another story entirely...</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I disagree.
Most of the genre-breaking webcomics out there are like that because they're heavily influenced by "alternative" comic books.<P>And I always knew that Wendy broke the comic strip barrier.
cuteWendy, however shoves it back inside that barrier! Ha ha!
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Postby josh l. on Sat Aug 11, 2001 8:14 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>And I always knew that Wendy broke the comic strip barrier.
cuteWendy, however shoves it back inside that barrier! Ha ha!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I.. I... uh... shut up!
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Postby morbh on Sun Aug 12, 2001 12:34 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Josh Lesnick:
<B> I think this is common fallacy among people who write daily comics, I've found. That is, thinking EVERY comic MUST have a gag at the end. Too often I've seen contrived and hackneyed writing come from otherwise good comics 'cause people feel they must follow this format.
Take it from me. If you can't think of a funny gag, sometimes it's best to just not write one. And you don't need to add a "To Be Continued" to the end of the comic for closure either.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Of course, my strip not being daily but rather bi-weekly certainly needs that gag at the end <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/smile.gif"> Also, as I think I've mentioned before, I don't consider my strip as a webcomic per se, but rather as a comic that just so happens to be on the web! This is also due to the fact that, besides the scanning of the strips, there's very little electronic editing done. So they look like shit on the web, but at least they look like the same shit on my drawing paper <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/wink.gif"><P>------------------
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Postby Chris Crosby on Sun Aug 12, 2001 2:16 am

David:<P>"The REAL mistake this article made is webcomics are NOT a professional medium, nor does it try to be."<P>As a whole, no, but there are webcomics that try to be as "professional" as possible. That includes most of Keenspot. Our goal is to eventually make a living doing webcomics, absurd as it may be to some. Stranger things have happened.<P>"People who want to make a living at comics don't try to do so with webcomics. That would be absurd."<P>It would be just as absurd trying to make a living by publishing comic books. Unless you're doing a mainstream, full color superhero book, 99% of the time you're not even going to BREAK EVEN on it. At least with webcomics you generally don't LOSE lots of money doing your comic.<P>"Most of the genre-breaking webcomics out there are like that because they're heavily influenced by 'alternative' comic books."<P>Examples? What's your definition of "genre-breaking"? What genre is being broken? I do not understand.<P>BTW, I like "earth." a lot. I look forward to its return.<P>------------------
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Postby -PDI- on Sun Aug 12, 2001 2:31 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Psiogen:
<B> I just make the gags, and let the story go wherever the gags take them.
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Sorta like comic porn?<P>------------------
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Postby Psiogen on Sun Aug 12, 2001 5:20 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by -PDI-:
<B> Sorta like comic porn?
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yes, except not. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/tongue.gif"><P>------------------
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Postby Shepherd on Sun Aug 12, 2001 5:37 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Psiogen:
<B> Yup. Basically, you have to make a choice: what's more important, the story or the gags? If you choose "story", then a strip that advances the story doesn't need a gag at the end of it.
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
True enough; a joke-laden "Wandering Ones" wouldn't be nearly as enjoyable as the current strip (but I am kinda enjoying thinking about a 'zany' Wandering Ones now). My consistent faves online are all strips that have both storylines and gags, however, and I don't think that's a coincidence; Nukees, Sluggy, Superosity, Soap on a Rope and WIGU all sustain storylines for a week or more while maintaining the consistent joke-payoff. And I think that doing that takes a kind of skill that can really only be developed online, due to the aforementioned archive system and the relatively low cost of Internet stripping.<P>Lord, that sounded wrong.<P>Anyhow, the thing I find most intriguing about Webcomics is that they have these amazingly sustained narratives with consistent punchlines, which is nearly unique... other than "For Better Or For Worse," which isn't a particularly shining example of a laff riot, I can't think of many newspaper strips that have ever sustained a six-week story with no problems; similarly, no humour comics ever deal with the four-panel gag format... because they don't have to.
It's a neat sub-genre of comics writing and one that really appeals to me for a variety of reasons, and it's pretty much only being developed on-line. So hooray for us.<P><P>------------------
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Postby Maritza Campos on Sun Aug 12, 2001 5:53 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by David_McGuire:
<B>I really, really liked that article for two reasons:
1) This is the first time I've heard anyone speak AGAINST webcomics and it's nice to get a new perspective.
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>REALLY???? Boy, do I feel like a veteran now...<P>Maritza
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Postby Psiogen on Sun Aug 12, 2001 9:37 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Josh Lesnick:
<B> I think this is common fallacy among people who write daily comics, I've found. That is, thinking EVERY comic MUST have a gag at the end. Too often I've seen contrived and hackneyed writing come from otherwise good comics 'cause people feel they must follow this format.
Take it from me. If you can't think of a funny gag, sometimes it's best to just not write one. And you don't need to add a "To Be Continued" to the end of the comic for closure either.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yup. Basically, you have to make a choice: what's more important, the story or the gags? If you choose "story", then a strip that advances the story doesn't need a gag at the end of it.<P>Of course, I personally chose "gags", and I do have a gag in every strip. But I don't try to make any sort of strained compromise with the story. I just make the gags, and let the story go wherever the gags take them.
<P>------------------
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Postby gwalla on Mon Aug 13, 2001 11:40 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Shepherd:
<B>Anyhow, the thing I find most intriguing about Webcomics is that they have these amazingly sustained narratives with consistent punchlines, which is nearly unique... other than "For Better Or For Worse," which isn't a particularly shining example of a laff riot, I can't think of many newspaper strips that have ever sustained a six-week story with no problems</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Except Doonesbury, of course, which is basically just one big story.<P>------------------
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Postby David_McGuire on Tue Aug 14, 2001 3:08 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chris Crosby:
<B>Examples? What's your definition of "genre-breaking"? What genre is being broken? I do not understand.<P>BTW, I like "earth." a lot. I look forward to its return.
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I made that post only 3 days ago, but I can't remember <I>exactly</I> what I meant, actually.
I think I meant non-traditional genre comics.
Examples?
Wendy seems to be influenced by Too Much Coffee Man, Evan Dorkin, and manga.
Elf Life by classic comic strips and possibly Elf Quest.
Your comic's art style must be influenced at least a LITTLE by Garfield.
Of course... Garfield, manga, and classic comic strips might not count as "alternative" comix. 9_9;<P>It'd be much easier if I could just say random things without being encouraged to back them up with facts! >:(<P>Earth will be back next week!
Sorta.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Maritza Campos:
<B> REALLY???? Boy, do I feel like a veteran now...</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I've heard people insult the quality of webcomics before, but this is really the first time I've heard anyone say webcomics are BAD for the medium of comics.<P>I heard Charles Schulz say that college cartoonists are bad for comic strips, because in the old days cartoonists worked their way up from gag strips, but ANYONE can get published in a college paper.
I think it was more of Charles Schulz being an old fogey who complains that these aren't "the good ol' days" anymore.<P>------------------
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